Serpentine Belt / Pulley Conversion?
- Thread starter lookforjoe
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lookforjoe
True Classic
How's it coming along?
rjplenter
True Classic
Very slowly
Still accumulating parts bit by bit and still need to spend many hours on the head before the build can go ahead.
Work has been busy but mostly we have had a serious health scare with my wife which has distracted me away from the garage. We finally have a diagnosis and not as serious as we had been warned it might be, now we need a treatment strategy but long term it will all be fine.
If I can get hold of a water pump housing and new water pump and a 1500 crank pulley I can try installing the pulleys on the block and see where we are headed...
Cheers,
Rob
Still accumulating parts bit by bit and still need to spend many hours on the head before the build can go ahead.
Work has been busy but mostly we have had a serious health scare with my wife which has distracted me away from the garage. We finally have a diagnosis and not as serious as we had been warned it might be, now we need a treatment strategy but long term it will all be fine.
If I can get hold of a water pump housing and new water pump and a 1500 crank pulley I can try installing the pulleys on the block and see where we are headed...
Cheers,
Rob
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
Let me know...
If you want me to send some parts your way. I'm pretty sure I can scare up a pulley if you send me a picture of the one you need (I think there were different kinds for different years and options).
I don't have a new water pump housing but I bet I can find an old one, if that helps.
Pete
If you want me to send some parts your way. I'm pretty sure I can scare up a pulley if you send me a picture of the one you need (I think there were different kinds for different years and options).
I don't have a new water pump housing but I bet I can find an old one, if that helps.
Pete
rjplenter
True Classic
We might need Husseins advice
on crank pulleys, since it needs to be turned down on a lathe, maybe it doesn't matter which one?
Thanks Pete, if you have a water pump housing I'll happily buy it off you. And a crank pulley. I'm going to source a new water pump from one of our vendors.
I'll be recycling some suitable parts from our 1300 once I pull it out but will be installing new water and oil pumps for some insurance.
Cheers,
Rob
on crank pulleys, since it needs to be turned down on a lathe, maybe it doesn't matter which one?
Thanks Pete, if you have a water pump housing I'll happily buy it off you. And a crank pulley. I'm going to source a new water pump from one of our vendors.
I'll be recycling some suitable parts from our 1300 once I pull it out but will be installing new water and oil pumps for some insurance.
Cheers,
Rob
lookforjoe
True Classic
I've not seen a 1300 or Non-AC crank pulley - as long as it has sufficient depth for the outer pulley to seat once pressed on, I wouldn't expect it to matter. I discarded the AC outer split pulley, no need for it or the additional weight.
crank pulley being turned down in the lathe you can see that not much is really removed
crank pulley being turned down in the lathe you can see that not much is really removed
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Pete Whitstone
True Classic
I will definitely see what I have
When I'm in the shop Friday.
If you let me know the exact diameter you want the pulley turned down to, I will spend a few minutes at the lathe before I send it on to you.
Pete
When I'm in the shop Friday.
If you let me know the exact diameter you want the pulley turned down to, I will spend a few minutes at the lathe before I send it on to you.
Pete
lookforjoe
True Classic
He needs to remove the hub and turn the serp pulley first to make sure it is centric - then the crank pulley can be machined for interference fit based on the cleaned up serp pulley ID
rjplenter
True Classic
Hussein is right
Sorry Pete, I somehow missed the last 2 messages on this thread.
Hussein is correct, I need to have the new pulley machined first, then the crank pulley machined to fit.
Hussein, is a double v-belt pulley better? Or would a single belt pulley work? The single would be lighter of course.
Cheers,
Rob
Sorry Pete, I somehow missed the last 2 messages on this thread.
Hussein is correct, I need to have the new pulley machined first, then the crank pulley machined to fit.
Hussein, is a double v-belt pulley better? Or would a single belt pulley work? The single would be lighter of course.
Cheers,
Rob
lookforjoe
True Classic
The AC pulley is double V , however I discarded the outermost section.
No idea on the single pulley, I've not seen one for comparison - if it's also cast, it should have enough substance.
No idea on the single pulley, I've not seen one for comparison - if it's also cast, it should have enough substance.
rjplenter
True Classic
Slow, slow progress
Now that our long awaited new water pump has finally arrived I'm able to work on this again. Crank pulley still hasn't been modified and this is using an old belt I took off the Subaru recently, but this gives me an idea of how it will look.
I still can't decide if I need an idler/tensioner...
Cheers,
Rob
Now that our long awaited new water pump has finally arrived I'm able to work on this again. Crank pulley still hasn't been modified and this is using an old belt I took off the Subaru recently, but this gives me an idea of how it will look.
I still can't decide if I need an idler/tensioner...
Cheers,
Rob
lookforjoe
True Classic
I would add a idler or tensioner to increase belt contact area between the water pump & the alternator - that would mean a much longer belt, however. Less likely to develop slippage if the belt is pulled in between those two.
rjplenter
True Classic
Had a good look at it last night
I'm not sure it would fit there. The alternator is at full droop in that photo because the old Subie belt is too long. Once I swing it up there isn't much room for an idler.
I may have to just rely on the extra grip of a ribbed belt compared to an old V belt.
I'm not sure it would fit there. The alternator is at full droop in that photo because the old Subie belt is too long. Once I swing it up there isn't much room for an idler.
I may have to just rely on the extra grip of a ribbed belt compared to an old V belt.
lookforjoe
True Classic
I've ordered a Gates 36322 pulley like Hussein is using.
That's where I meant - that should be perfect.
rjplenter
True Classic
Tensioner installed
Having decided where to place the belt tensioner I had to come up with a design for a bracket.
Many years preparing rally cars and race cars taught me that if you are adding something, try to use what ever is already there. Rather than produce a whole new bracket it seemed logical to use the timing indicator bracket for an idler mount.
After a couple of hours of fabricating, welding and painting there is now a braced bracket behind the Gates tensioner. Now it is a tensioner mount with added timing indicators. :wink2:
Still have to get the crank pulleys machined and installed and still waiting for the new alternator bracket to arrive. Then I'll be able to figure out the correct belt length.
Cheers,
Rob
Having decided where to place the belt tensioner I had to come up with a design for a bracket.
Many years preparing rally cars and race cars taught me that if you are adding something, try to use what ever is already there. Rather than produce a whole new bracket it seemed logical to use the timing indicator bracket for an idler mount.
After a couple of hours of fabricating, welding and painting there is now a braced bracket behind the Gates tensioner. Now it is a tensioner mount with added timing indicators. :wink2:
Still have to get the crank pulleys machined and installed and still waiting for the new alternator bracket to arrive. Then I'll be able to figure out the correct belt length.
Cheers,
Rob
Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
On my late model (1500) car I don't recall that timing indicator bracket to be much more than a pretty thin sheet metal stamping.
Yours looks to be a lot beefier piece of metal, almost to the thickness of say the alternator adjustment bracket.
Yours looks to be a lot beefier piece of metal, almost to the thickness of say the alternator adjustment bracket.
Black-Tooth
Tony Natoli
All you guys are CRAZY... but I'm enjoying your posts!
HA!
Great stuff guys and a bunch of work.
Has anyone considered the "parabolic losses" inherent in the serpentine belts versus the traditional V-belts, or (industrial-type) cogged belts?
(Just another element to consider versus the gains you are trying to achieve. My understanding of WHY most OEMs went to serpentine systems was for ease of manufacture, assembly, costs and packaging. With a single belt drive that most of us currently have to power the pump and alternator... I admit the serpentine is the "latest thing" and in fact COOL to look at... but at least more costly in time and effort here, IMHO.)
As long as your kids are fed, warm and schooled... and you are having FUN... then keep up the GOOD WORK!
OH... and lastly... I've seen alternators turned around running BACKWARDS and mounted to the chassis with the engine bolted directly to the chassis as well. It works... but hopefully I haven't given you even MORE ideas in addition to using an electric water pump to gain even more flow and save a few more ponies to use elsewhere... and eliminating the alternator all-together for short stints in the 1/4 mile and Auto-Cross...
HA!
Great stuff guys and a bunch of work.
Has anyone considered the "parabolic losses" inherent in the serpentine belts versus the traditional V-belts, or (industrial-type) cogged belts?
(Just another element to consider versus the gains you are trying to achieve. My understanding of WHY most OEMs went to serpentine systems was for ease of manufacture, assembly, costs and packaging. With a single belt drive that most of us currently have to power the pump and alternator... I admit the serpentine is the "latest thing" and in fact COOL to look at... but at least more costly in time and effort here, IMHO.)
As long as your kids are fed, warm and schooled... and you are having FUN... then keep up the GOOD WORK!
OH... and lastly... I've seen alternators turned around running BACKWARDS and mounted to the chassis with the engine bolted directly to the chassis as well. It works... but hopefully I haven't given you even MORE ideas in addition to using an electric water pump to gain even more flow and save a few more ponies to use elsewhere... and eliminating the alternator all-together for short stints in the 1/4 mile and Auto-Cross...
lookforjoe
True Classic
I can't see using one serpentine belt creating more losses than three crappy v belts that wear & need adjustment at ridiculously high intervals.
That is the main reason for switching to an essentially maintance free design. Serpentine belts last at least 50k on my Volvo's - I think at this point it is unlikely I will ever change the belt again - unless it age cracks in 3-5 years, which will still be much better than fiddling with three annoying v belts....
That is the main reason for switching to an essentially maintance free design. Serpentine belts last at least 50k on my Volvo's - I think at this point it is unlikely I will ever change the belt again - unless it age cracks in 3-5 years, which will still be much better than fiddling with three annoying v belts....