Stainless Coolant Pipes

Tony, 1-1/4" copper tubing ?

I read again and found what I missed yeasterday - the size of that copper tubing.
Just to make sure, Tony, are you sure it is a 1-1/4" O.D. copper tubing that fits into the exsiting ones?
If yes I'll be out and running to get them.
Thanks guys
 
Rick does in deed have two patterns for tubes. One is for the Lancia Scorpion and the other is for the X1/9. The Lancia tubes are made with 1.5" dia tubes while the X1/9 tubes are 1.25" dia seamless 302 SST. These are a replica of the OE tubes in the X, these are the ones you need to order. All the design work has been done including beaded sleeves to fit the OE hoses and drain bosses on the bottom of the tubes. I know of one other X web member who has ordered these. email me if more info is required.

Parker makes a beading tool:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/parkerbead.php

also:
http://www.aircraftspruce.com/catalog/topages/ezbeader.php

Seamless 3003 aluminum should be OK too, my hesitation for using aluminum, this stuff is soft and has similar corrosion problems as aluminum engine and cooling system parts.

Ferrari Dino used (yea, Ferrari spec odd metric size) mesh reinforced rubber hoses for coolant tubes that ran from the engine to the front radiator. It's just like over sized heater hose. Some Dino's have had SST coolant tubes retro fitted in place of the rubber hoses.

Modern silicone coolant/heater hose should be OK too, except this stuff is expensive.

mblommel said:
Bernice, I talked to Rick over at Brown & Miller racing about getting a set of tubes bent up for me. He told me you (He said a Bernice ordered them so I assume it's you) had two different one's bent. One for a Scorpion and one for a "Boss" X1/9 whatever that means. Does any of this ring a bell with you? The bottom line is he has 2 patterns in his CNC bender and I'm not certain what he has available. Any light you can shed would be appreciated. Also, did the pipes you get have beaded ends to prevent the hoses from blowing off? Rick told me they don't do beading, so that is something I'll have buy, make, borrow, rent, beg or steal a tool to do.

I may bend my own tubes yet. I have access to a bender, Mcmaster carr and a TIG.

Anyone ever think of doing these in aluminum? I suppose they would be more vulnerable to crushing if you ran over something. Other than that they would be lighter and just as corrosion resistant.
Click to expand...
 
Hi Herzel

If you want to follow the copper pipes method here is the link.

http://trazia.com/x19/coolant.html

extrasmallrbrbadgezv7.jpg

Ricardo
X19/79
www.trazia.com/x19
 
Well.....

not being much of a machinist nor a welder, I truly believe I've found the solution to my problem....:dance:

Copper plumbing is something I'm quite good at, so this is one project I just have to do....:)

Thanks for providing the link....it's awesome....:king:
 
Thanks for the info Bernice. I did have a couple other questions.

1. Did you have any particular reason for specifying 302 instead of 304 or 316SS? Cost could be a factor I suppose.
2. Is there a reason you didn't use seamed SS tube? It's really a lot cheaper and good for like 1300 psi in 304. I suppose the flow is a little worse inside, but most SS seamed tube has a very, very small weld inside. Is it a bending issue?
3. You mentioned that the design has been done on the beaded ends. By this do you mean sizing the correct tube to slip over the 1.25" tube with the bead already on to fit the hoses better? Since Rick doesn't do the beading I"ll be coming up with these on my own.

Thanks for all your help. I want to fix this once and fix it right.

Mike
 
Just look at this picture.

P3220473.jpg

P3150468.jpg

The 1 3/8" OD tube is swaged to fit inside the 1 3/8" tube and welded. It will be a gamble to push a straight length of 1 1/4" copper pipe through it.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
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Hello Mike,

Some answers to your questions:

1. 302 SST, seamless is what Rick had in stock at BMRS in a suitable size, so we simply used what was easily available. Given a choice, I perfer seamless over welded or DOM. The Lancia Scorpion coolant tubes use welded SST (think 302 also, 1.5" dia), it's not as nice a material as the ones for the X, but functionally fine.

2. I had Rick bead up some 1.375" and weld them to the ends like this. It fits the stock X hoses and the bead prevents the hose from popping off. Suggestion, I double clamped (use two covered band hose clamps) just in case one clamp fails or gets loose for any reason. Avoid the open gear band clamps as they tend to extrude the hose material into the geared band. I really don't like doing this to any hose.


3. Another detail, the coolant drains. These are SST bosses with copper crush washers on M6 SST screws, near identical to the stock X made from SST.


Regardless of how coolant tubes are repaired/re-done. It's NOT a fun thing to do.

Bernice



mblommel said:
Thanks for the info Bernice. I did have a couple other questions.

1. Did you have any particular reason for specifying 302 instead of 304 or 316SS? Cost could be a factor I suppose.
2. Is there a reason you didn't use seamed SS tube? It's really a lot cheaper and good for like 1300 psi in 304. I suppose the flow is a little worse inside, but most SS seamed tube has a very, very small weld inside. Is it a bending issue?
3. You mentioned that the design has been done on the beaded ends. By this do you mean sizing the correct tube to slip over the 1.25" tube with the bead already on to fit the hoses better? Since Rick doesn't do the beading I"ll be coming up with these on my own.

Thanks for all your help. I want to fix this once and fix it right.

Mike
Click to expand...
 
Thanks guys, good info

Ricardo - great instructive thread.
TonyK, thanks. You really went the hard way, the very hard way.
Now, where am I:
Copper tubing is available here at 35mm (1-3/8") Dia or 28mm (1.1") Dia.
SS tubing can be found at any dia.
Now, do I
1. Cut the tunnel and fabricate new set, or
2. Or push a pipe through the old tubing.

If I chose 1, I can weld a new setup at a local weld shop or make a new Copper set a-la Ricardo.
If I go by route 2, I'l do it in SS (more available) but no welding is possible while ON the car.
So... I'll consult with Rafi, My friend/mechanic and let you know.
Any thoughts are welcome
and lots of thanks
 
Hey Herzel...

I'm not sure of ANYTHING... but...

I'm pretty friggin' sure that its 1 1/4 inch OD that was shoved inside the old pipe.

And I'm also pretty friggin' sure that at age 70+, you'll never haveta touch these pipes again.

Simple, easy, inexpensive, effective, and will last a LOOOONG time on is planet.
 
Hey Dan...

I operate at 185 all day... so's a 15 degree margin seems about right...

HAHAHA...

I really don't know the cost of the higher temp PLASTICS, but I'm pretty sure they are out there.

My PRIMARY point was the labor savings in cutting out the tunnel, etc. Using the old pipe as simply a guide is a great idea and copper works extremely well... and probably will last as long as the factory stuff... I betcha! I just took the idea a step further.

Rudy's old ride now lives in Las Vegas... We'll need to keep an eye on him...
 
Bernice... see my answer to Dan... and...

TK does EVERYTHING to the 'nth degree and my hat is off to him.

As I stated... Old Blue Tooth is living in Vegas and the copper has been in there 3 or 4 years now... with cross country trips from LA to Connecticut. Doing pretty good I'd say... and unlike Ricardo's suggestion, is suppended inside the old tubes...

Anyway... I just wanted to offer up some alternatives...

When its my turn... I'll go after the plastics... but ONLY when its my turn... and let ya all know how I do...

HA!
 
Thanks for all the info Bernice.

I may have a go and making my own tubes since I have access to bender, tig, etc. It certainly would be cheaper. I also enjoy doing the fabrication stuff. After the cooling system is rebuilt its on to some custom coilovers!

Thanks again.

-Mike
 
Just wanted to update you guys....

I just ordered a set of new stainless coolant pipes from Rick and B&M. Cost was $358 + shipping. The set they are making for me is in 304 seamless stainless, 1.25" OD, 0.049 wall. They don't have the beaded ends, but Rick is including a piece of 1 3/8" SS tube to make my own ends.

I'll keep everyone updated on my progress in their installation. I got my Scirocco radiator on Thursday last week. Now I need to bend up some stainless 5/8 tube to replace the heater pipes and replace all the hoses. The only thing I'm not certain of at this point is how I will handle the heater core. It's not leaking now, but I"m keen on rebuilding the whole system to avoid problems in the future. Any suggestions?
 
Here's the description from ebay:

Item title: VOLKSWAGEN SCIROCCO 82 83 84 85 86 87 1.8 L4 RADIATOR

Basically the radiator from any 2nd generation Scirocco seems to be the same. I don't have any pics of mine yet, but it looks just like the one in this post:

http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1199811127/scirocco+radiator+redux

It isn't an exact fit, but for the price it's pretty darn good. I little longer, and a little wider. About the same thickness. And LIGHT. I have to engineer the mounts a bit as my '74 doesn't have that convenient lip showing being bent down in the N54 post. Mine's smooth up there. So, I I need to visit the u-pull-it for some scirocco radiator hold-downs maybe.
 
HA!!

Obviously, I spent to much time reading the post after I located it. You beat me me Mike. :)
 
No problem lookforjoe

I hope I didn't come across as trying to be an ass. It's never a problem to ask a question around here. I just wanted to let you know what a valuable resource we have in the archives. It is fun just to pick a topic and search around. OK.. maybe my idea of fun is not the same as everybody else. ;)

A good place to start is the "Best Of" section from Xweb 1.0. Lots of interesting reading right there.

http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1104538888/

Is it OK if we just call you Joe?
 
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