assembling the engine

Ricardo Borja

Ricardo Borja

el moco
Last year I bought a rebuilt engine almost done assembling. with a lot of new parts, I never rebuilt a FIAT engine before, my only experience was with a VW bug aircooled engines.

the engine is a 1979 Fiat 1500cc Engine with new rings, bearings, valve seats, valve guides, ect.
Head has been ported & polished

This engine practicly just needs to attach the oil pump and camshaft head and ready to put back to the car. but when I reviewed the piston rods I saw something wrong. On the haynes manual says needs to install following the marks. 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4

but i saw 1-1, 2-3, 3-2, 4-4 !!! Ok, I don't trust that. so I'll start to dismantling all and start again. I need your help.

sorry if I make dumb questions, i'm a beginner and i want to learn. on the haynes manual just say "markings were noted during dismantling".


The block


picture 1-front engine is the timing pulley and rear is the flywheel? and FRONT OF THE ENGINE IS THE INLET AND EXHAUST LOCATION, and REAR IS THE DISTRIBUITOR, OIL FILTER AND PLUGS?

eap001.jpg


marks on the crankshaft needs to go on the oil filter side? (rear of the engine?)
MARKS I II III IIII starts on front and the last is NO MARKED? (next to the flywheel)


picture 2-piston rods marks, from the front to rear is piston 1-2-3-4? on haynes manual says "the identification numbers stamped on the connecting rods are to the rear of the engine when fitted"

eap002.jpg


if you see the picture, some is wrong.
I will need to remove the connecting rod and piston 3 from cilinder 2 and place on cil 3, same with connecting rod and piston 2 on cil 3?

picture 3-pistons side, this is the correct side?

eap003.jpg
 
Last edited:
Okay, I'll start

On your connecting rods, the caps have to match the rods, with, starting from the front (timing gear side) of the engine, 1-1, 2-2, 3-3, 4-4. I can't tell from the pictures if you need to switch the number 2 and 3 rod caps or the rods, but something needs to be switched. Also, I don't know too much about what you've checked, but, if you have the con rod caps off anyhow, check the bearing clearance to make sure it's within specs. (I'd check the main bearings too.)
To clarify, the front of the engine in you photos is the crank timing belt gear side.
The pistons are installed correctly with their valve reliefs according to your photos.
The oil filter screws on the side of the block opposite the intake and exhaust manifolds.
Keep working at it, and post more pictures of other items you need clarified.
Dave
 
!

The shop manual says the numbers on the connecting rods should face AWAY from the auxiliary shaft. I don't remember which way it went, i just put it all back the same way I found it. Document everything when you take things apart.
 
Unfortunatly documenting this thing would be a waste of time. It probably has other mistakes. its not that hard Ricardo. Just need a good book and good advice, seems you have both.
 
Thanks Dave

Yes,
piston 1(cyl 1), connecting rod 1, rod cap 1,
piston 2(cyl 2), connecting rod 3, rod cap 2,
piston 3(cyl 3), connecting rod 2, rod cap 3,
piston 4(cyl 4), connecting rod 2, rod cap 4,

Tomorrow I'll remove the piston 2 and 3 and i'll place on right cylinder.

thanks again
 
Thanks JJ

jjay911 said:
I can send my "expert" out to inspect and help if you need... JJ
Click to expand...

I'll keep this phone call for a real emergency, this engine I got for this reason, I'll try to learn how to assembly, but if something happen I'll let you know.

Thanks again
 
Yes, and...

...I would also check piston to cylinder clearance and ring end gap on teh two middle cylinders. Maybe there was a reason why it was assembled wrong?
But then the caps shouldn't be mismatched.

Ricardo, do you know what was done to the engine?
Was the crank ground and undersized main/rod bearings used? (on these engines this is often not even necessary when rebuilding)
 
maybe the rods were machined and re-honed for some reason. you need to remove the brg shells and measure the inside of a reassembled rod.

oh and you mentioned this was a 1500cc engine. only thing is it has studs on the manifold side of the head face. as far as i am aware all 1500's had bolts while the studs were only for the 1300cc motors (here in australia at least)
 
Right Ricky... and then switch the caps also...

I am assuming you did not assemble the engine now...

Someone else did, correct?

If so, and you found this ONE mistake, I don't trust anything else that was done.

Your pistons may not be on the same rods they came off of or in the same cylinders they came out of... Are they NEW, was the block bored or cleaned up?

I agree with what others have said and rod and main clearances should be checked with Plasti-gauge and the pistons and cylinders mic'd.

Sorry... but keeping the rods and caps together and placing them in the correct cylinders is relatively EASY. I'm leery of the more complicated stuff now.

If you bought the short block or had it "professionally" assembled I'd take it back and have them verify everything while YOU watch! Just point out their mistake and if they can't see the problem... WHOA... you have a problem.

You have my number... let me know if I can help...
 
Hi Tony

Black-Tooth said:
I am assuming you did not assemble the engine now...

Someone else did, correct?

If so, and you found this ONE mistake, I don't trust anything else that was done.

Your pistons may not be on the same rods they came off of or in the same cylinders they came out of... Are they NEW, was the block bored or cleaned up?

I agree with what others have said and rod and main clearances should be checked with Plasti-gauge and the pistons and cylinders mic'd.

Sorry... but keeping the rods and caps together and placing them in the correct cylinders is relatively EASY. I'm leery of the more complicated stuff now.

If you bought the short block or had it "professionally" assembled I'd take it back and have them verify everything while YOU watch! Just point out their mistake and if they can't see the problem... WHOA... you have a problem.

You have my number... let me know if I can help...
Click to expand...

I don't know who's rebuilt the engine, the guy who selling me the engine he keept on his garage for years around 7 or 8 yrs he said. he had an X1/9 but loose interest and forgot to selling this engine on those years.

Everything looks OK! I removed the pistons 2 and 3 and the cylinders just been cleaned, but looks ok! pistons perfectly cleaned too, new bearing seats on STD stamped and new rings. after to reinstall those pistons 2-3 I'll remove 1 and 4 just to be sure.

Crankshaft looks all ok!


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img8706.jpg


img8703j.jpg
 
1500 with studs

I just disassembled a 79 1500 with studs. Won't reuse them though.

This engine was from the states.

Paul Davock
 
I don't see any cross-hatching on the cylinder walls. Maybe hard to show on a pic, or maybe not there? Did the P.O. bore and/or hone the cylinders?

Not too thrilled with the scale in the water jacket, either...
 
Ricky STOP!

That engine was NOT honed... and hearing this story and seeing what we've see so far... you need to STOP!

Everything may LOOK OK, but it needs to be mic'd and that goes for the crank bearings and rod bearings as well. Then clearances need to be checked with "plastiguage" and INSURE the correct bearings have been selected. From what I see here, those cylinders have not been honed and the crank and rod journals have not been cleaned up either. I'd also have the block and head thoroughly tested and hot-tanked also.

Now... you can gamble and put it all together or take it down to Mark Allison or John Edwards and have them verify everything is OK.

One way MAY cost you nothing... or may COST you a lot later on in both TIME and MONEY... Taking it to John or Mark will cost some money but give you a sense of security and may save you a ton of money overall.

Sorry Ricky... but you have a decision to make! With what I have seen so far and LISTENING to what you have shown me and told me so far... I would take it to one of these guys...

Wish I could help you here but I haven't all the tools or experience with these engines...
 
Thanks Tony!!

Black-Tooth said:
That engine was NOT honed... and hearing this story and seeing what we've see so far... you need to STOP!

Everything may LOOK OK, but it needs to be mic'd and that goes for the crank bearings and rod bearings as well. Then clearances need to be checked with "plastiguage" and INSURE the correct bearings have been selected. From what I see here, those cylinders have not been honed and the crank and rod journals have not been cleaned up either. I'd also have the block and head thoroughly tested and hot-tanked also.

Now... you can gamble and put it all together or take it down to Mark Allison or John Edwards and have them verify everything is OK.

One way MAY cost you nothing... or may COST you a lot later on in both TIME and MONEY... Taking it to John or Mark will cost some money but give you a sense of security and may save you a ton of money overall.

Sorry Ricky... but you have a decision to make! With what I have seen so far and LISTENING to what you have shown me and told me so far... I would take it to one of these guys...

Wish I could help you here but I haven't all the tools or experience with these engines...
Click to expand...

This is exactly why I start this post. I need to know and learn. I'll stop and follow your points. Today I was thinking to torque all and start with the head, but i'll wait till to see To Mark or JJ engine gurus, no hurry I got this engine for this pourpose LEARN:thumbsup:. The engine on my X1/9 was rebuilted for Mark Allison 4500 miles ago and rebuilt this engine is not my priority.

I'll call you later and thanks to all. :)
 
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