common starter issue

jvandyke

jvandyke

True Classic
Suddenly I get clicks only when starting. After searching a bit I think it's solenoid contacts. Last summer I did the BWM to both ignition and fuse box connector, cleaned and actually moved the lower ground strap (broke the bolt!). I did stop by a parts place just now and added a ground strap from cam cover to firewall. I did pull the starter when I got the car (about a year ago) and cleaned it up, solenoid too, the contacts certainly looked "used" but they aren't reversible as I recall since they weren't symmetrical. Could be just a flakey wire on the solenoid. Could be ignition switch otherwise I suppose. I'm thinking of doing a relay to the solenoid if no poor connections can be found and if the battery proves strong. Also read about running another power line from alternator, probably not as good a plan as a relay. Would you usually run a dedicated line from the battery straight to the relay? If so, what's a good path to follow? I imagine I could run it along the tunnel, passenger side, along with all the other wires, into the spare tire area, then through the firewall to relay.
 
Last edited:
!

These cures are for a draggy starter. If it doesn't turn at all, it's the solenoid, or a dead spot on the starter, or the brushes are worn out on the starter.

It probably just time for a rebuilt starter.

But the other things you listed are really good to do too! There is a hot wire from battery to starter, make sure it's clean. the solenoid IS a relay, so you shouldn't need to do anything else to that curcuit.
 
Hard start relay thread

Hi Jeff,

I think the goal of the relay is just to take the load off the ignition switch, since they seem to "burn up" over time. The starter is part of the "big green wire" circuit that runs from the battery to the alt, so if you are charging OK you probably don't need a new 12v feed.

I am sure you saw this thread a while back, but here it is again:
http://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/11187/

And the link to the pre-made harness if you don't feel like making one:
https://sites.google.com/site/vanagonheadlightrelays/hard-start-relay
 
Last edited by a moderator:
I had forgotten about that, thanks. I'll do a bit more investigating and such, battery terminals, battery condition, connections at the solenoid and such. Three more starts, only 2 mis fires so maybe the extra ground is helping.
 
Last edited:
put float charger on battery, it only charged for about 5 minutes so odds are pretty good the battery is fine (it was new last spring). Removed, cleaned and moved the lower ground strap (this was done last spring too and looked pretty decent yet, despite running all winter!). Now last spring when I went to remove it the bolt head on the bell housing snapped off. I used an empty hole close by and just ran a bolt/nut. Tonight I took off the next higher bell housing bolt and cleaned it up (and the surface of the housing) and used that for the ground strap (cleaned the other end too of course). Thinking a bolt embedded in the housing should be a bit better ground than bolt and nut through an empty hole ( and a bit sloppy fit) probably no big difference.....
BTW I did put a smear of dielectric grease on the strap ends, thinking it would stem the corrosion a bit, hope that was wise.
 
Should work...

It's all about metal-to-metal contact and preventing corrosion at the joint.

Your grease and perhaps a serrated or "star" washer to provide some bite will go a long way to maintaining a good ground path. Multiple ground cables/straps is a good idea.
 
No click on initial start of the morning. Hopefully it fires up to get me from job site A to job site B, time sensitive! Maybe, just maybe all it really wanted was better ground. Little Fiat has gone from "optional" to mandatory as my two kids have commandeered "my" car. Must maintain roadworthiness as show of manhood....yikes.
 
In addition to the stock trans strap, I added a "Y" ground cable(from a Volvo 240) when I had this issue: Cyl head -to -trans (by clutch slave) & chassis. Problem solved, assuming it's not the starter itself.

90032.jpg


90031.jpg
 
my two cents

Stop fooling around with the grounds when I had the same problem I tried making better grounds It did not help . do the relay mod it works just do it you'll see.if it doesn't work than it's a bad starter solenoid thees solenoids are so simple I have had the one on my car apart and cleaned and re lubed to no avail till I did the starter relay mod.
 
racerx said:
Stop fooling around with the grounds when I had the same problem I tried making better grounds It did not help . do the relay mod it works just do it you'll see.if it doesn't work than it's a bad starter solenoid thees solenoids are so simple I have had the one on my car apart and cleaned and re lubed to no avail till I did the starter relay mod.
Click to expand...
Well my ground work (pun intended) may have helped, no clicking misfires at all today (so far). Voltmeter needle seems to run higher and I swear it idles a bit better. Any more flak out of it and I'll do the relay mod though.
 
A poor ground will impact everything - so it's a good sign that your fix also made a difference to the idle quality - the EMS needs the proper voltage levels to function properly.
 
It is funny because even in modern cars (2003 350Z) the issue of ground wire kits is discussed quite a bit. The Z came with one very thin wire that runs from the block to the chassis. Since it came out there has been ground wire kits that add 4 or 5 wires to run from the block or head to different parts of the engine bay.

Some swear by them, saying they even got a HP (lol). But most say it idles better, which could be. As stated, it helps the ECU to have a stable power line, and heck, a couple of more grounds won't hurt anything. :)

That Y from the head to a couple of chasis points seems like a good idea to me.
 
And you might get it...

A poor connection of the engine ground will affect starting, running as well as mileage, since the ground affects how the various sensors work.
 
click-no start returned a bit, fitted solenoid relay, made no difference, guess I'd better pull the starter and refurb or replace (the solenoid at least), I'll keep the relay anyway, at the least it should help the ignition switch, no?
 
Last edited:
I did this dance a few years ago

After cleaning contacts, etc, etc. I would still have starting issues. Got to the point where I kept a hammer behind the pass seat. I could lay on the ground on the pass side, reach in front of the rear wheel and deliver a love tap to the starter housing without getting all dirty. That worked for months. Finally ordered a rebuilt unit and fixed the problem.

I know you like to fix things when possible and you may have already found these, but here is an old post with links to a couple older posts about rebuilding starter solenoids.
http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1199665208/Starter+solenoid+rebuild+info
 
remote switch

just installed a remote start switch (momentary) under dash. jumping red and brown wires at steering column connector. bypasses ignition switch, but is always hot.
Deane
 
Thanks for link Jim, that's probably what I'll have to do (rebuild it like Tony did) since the penny pincher in me won't allow for spending money when only some of my time is needed. Maybe someday I'll figure out my time is worth something to me too! About 1:15a.m. THIS morning, I certianly felt like my time was better spent SLEEPING instead of rigging a relay that did no good.
 
pulled starter, took apart solenoid (came apart too easy, suspect failed solder joints in solenoid, I did it so quite likely, could easily have been the whole problem right there), looked like I left it last spring; corners of contact areas eroded a bit, otherwise, same. I touched the ends of the bolts to the grinder to "resurface" did the cut down washer deal (ala Tony) to space them out, managed to get the middle plunger contact guy apart (breaking it but not mortally wounded) and flipped that contact over to present fresh surface, reassembled, fired up fine to move the car and I'm off to bed, tomorrow will tell if it I sorted it for the cost of .....nothing.
 
solenoid rebuild

Here it is as it appeared last spring. You can see the corners of the contact points of both the main plate and bolt ends are quite erroded.
solenoidguts.jpg

And the internal contact with tab of the retaining sleeve broken off (plate already reversed)
solenoidcontact.jpg

another shot of the "erroded corner"
contactbad.jpg

shot of plate reversed
solenoidgood.jpg

And Tony's bolt spacer made from a washer
boltwasher.jpg


Certainly suspect the solenoid wires where I soldered them since when I took the end screws out to remove the solenoid cap it just fell apart, the solder joints should have resisted at least a little.
Three starts and the engine instantly spins with no drama. Yesterday was getting nasty with one attempted start approaching 30 tries with no help from bumping car in gear or wacking solenoid with tire iron. Hopefully it's good for a while.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top