1974 Fiat X/19 Engine swap.

I have a 1974 Fiat X/19 that I am wanting to swap to a newer fuel injected drive train around 200HP. I am trying to decide between a Toyota 2.0L 3S-GTE from an early MR2 or a b series Honda drivetrain. Has anyone done any of these? What drivetrain is the better to swap with? Results? Would like some help please?
 
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Are you sure you want to take a very rare 1974 car and modify it? It is likely worth more than a later car, especially in as OE condition versus modified. Clearly your choice.

The current lemons car has a longitudinally mounted one using a Porsche transaxle. There are a few different companies that make adapters for many different transmissions.

I have seen a few that use the X transaxle but the issue is that the exhaust exits alongside the axle causing the transaxle and engine to be angled in the engine bay.

There are some images of one of these swaps on the old Xweb as I recall.

Karl
 
Thanks

Thanks again. Still researching,although I am looking for power and driveability of a newer drivetrain. Will keep you posted. Thanks again for the info. Have a great day!
 
http://www.network54.com/Forum/1215...+Synopsis+and+discussion+(this+will+be+good)-


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GRM - RX7 Transplant Synopsis and discussion (this will be good).October 21 2004 at 7:57 AM Duane K Estill
This is a summary of the article so as not to plagiarize, and not pictures will be made available as they are copyrighted. I want mention the guys name who owns the car. These are the 'details.'

#74 X 4 Speed was the donor.

#Transplanted an 1974 RX4 (??) engine first - this must be a mistake because the article
says 13B and that engine doesn't show up
until 2nd gen. GSL then it is the basis for
the rest of the RX-7 engines. I'll assume
they meant RX-7. That or I'm missing
something.

#13B engine mated to the X four speed transaxle
and 1500CC clutch assembly. (??) Weren't 74's 1300's, unless he replaced this, article sounds like it was already there.

#Used eccentric shaft spacer form "a" Mazda automatic transmission, mated to a machined Fiat 124 flywheel that was drilled to match the Mazda's bolt pattern.

#Ring gear was mounted on the other side of the flywheel to mate up with the starter.

#Fiat starter mounted on engine, Mazda's is mounted on the bell housing. With Fiat transaxle (this is supposedly the 1500cc). So dude cut a hole in the Fiat bell housing and made a bracket to hold a Corvair (!!??) starter with a "Marine Bendix" drive necessary for the proper reach to mate up with the flywheel ring gear.

#Starter was then reverse wound to turn in the proper direction, Corvair starters run the other way. What the F***???!!

#Made a large triangular adaptor plate and solid engine mounts from .5 inch sheet of 6061 T6 aluminum.

#Engine was rotated forward "about 20 degrees" for mounting for half shaft clearance from the exhaust.

#Oil pickup (??) relocated beause of the rotation.

#For clearance in the engine bay, powertrain moved off axis with the front of the engine towards the front of the car.

#Exhaust system was fabricated from a "Racing Beat" header kit, flowmaster musffler, and O2 sensor and Supertrapp baffle.

#Mazda oil cooler mounted under engine cover,stock FIAT fan and radiator used.

#Recently installed SDS EM-3D programmable electronic fuel injection.

#145 HP at 7K at the rear wheel.

#BFG R1 215/50R13 tires with wheels slightly trimmed.

_________________________________


Okay, I'm not a mechanic, but from a sheerly porject planning perspective this looks rather poorly planned and really just 'catch as catch can.' I admire the guy for doing it, but there are some big things that jump out. Like these:

1. Why even consider preserving the stock engine bay? If you're gonna go this far, loose the rear trunk and start with maximum space.

2. Why use a FIAT transmisssion. Use stock or at least a heavier duty italian, like a Biturbo Maserati or Lancia truck tranz.

3. Why not turbo, the 13B in Turbo form (89) version makes 200 HP. What's the point of only 145HP FOR ALL THIS TROUBLE?

4. If you're going to ricify, go all the way, using starter and other stuff MADE for this engine.

5. AUTOCAD with proper measurements would allow one to measure things before hand and PLAN AHEAD rather than "making" stuff fit.

This is the closest to a documented and systematic transplant approach for a rotary implant. Is there anybody here that can take this and be systematic and thorough in their analysis and offer this for a reproducable product? If we're ever gonna do things like this, it needs to be systematically documented so that anybody with all the parts could sit down and do it...like a brown wire mod rather than...this pissing in the breeze stuff.

Offered in good faith. I've got a 3D CAD design engineer buddy and we will be measuring everything after yanking the engine out of my parts car and creating rotatable models to do as much measuring before even touching the car or considering a part in the system This will be documented carefully and available to any who want it.
 
13b Rotary.

Ok, in my car I have a 13b connected to a 5 speed Fiero transmission with fiat 5 speed shafts. We also made a custom half shaft instead of a single long drive shaft on the passenger side.

Pro's - Power! Wow... Very fast car.

Con's - Exhaust location (custom header), Fiero 5 speed should not exceed 7k, but we run to 9k... So far no problems. Lots of fiddling around with stuff, such as wiring and cooling. Heavy exhaust because of the need for multiple mufflers to silence the beast.

Other - We use our for racing, so a single 48idf with big ol jets sucks gas at the rate of a gallon every 2 minutes at full battle cry. After it was all done, it drives fine, but I would not consider it for a daily driver. In our current tune (200hp+) it just is not very streetable.

My thoughts...

1. Lots of parts and price is ok, then Honda.
2. Not so many parts and price is so so, then Toyota
3. Keeping in the family? Newer twin cam from outside the us, and fab it in. Go for the turbo version.

As much as I like my Uno Turbo in my 74, it is a 20+ year old engine and technology.

Eric.
 
Thanks for the heads up The rotory seems like a lot of headaches that arent necessary. Although hats off to the engineering feet to pull all that off. The Uno turbo would be cool and closer to a factory right type resto. But not practicle parts wise for me. The Toyota turbo is looking pretty good so far. Although my son is a Honda guy and keeps talking to me about a b18c. Will keep researching, but the Toyota is in the lead so far. Thanks for all the information. This site is awsome!
 
IMO, if you're going to do and invest in all this work.. consider a Honda K20A with 6 speed/LSD (from JDM type R) or a properly modified Honda B series. Know that in LeMons racing, stock Honda B series engines are known for spitting con rods and popping head gaskets. Reliable/durable as street cars, but when endurance raced, they don't hold up. Stock Toyota 4AGE engines tend to eat main and con rod bearings and spit con rods when raced in LeMons. According to the folks who race them, the Toyota Atlantic race engine that produce over 200 Bhp at 9,500 RPM have life time of 12 hours before needing a rebuild.

Currently, the Honda K20A has become a motorsport favorite in much the same way as the Honda B series..

What are the goals for this project x1/9 ?

Your plans for the chassis? A stock chassis (suspension/brakes/wheels/tires) x1/9 is not going to work properly with that kind of power. If the power is upped, the rest of the car must be uprated to match or it's not going to be a properly balanced car to drive.


Bernice

Thanks for the heads up The rotory seems like a lot of headaches that arent necessary. Although hats off to the engineering feet to pull all that off. The Uno turbo would be cool and closer to a factory right type resto. But not practicle parts wise for me. The Toyota turbo is looking pretty good so far. Although my son is a Honda guy and keeps talking to me about a b18c. Will keep researching, but the Toyota is in the lead so far. Thanks for all the information. This site is awsome!
 
I agree with Bernice, if you have the coin the K20 is a great and proven swap performed by Midwest-Bayless. Awesome YouTube video of one chasing a Ferrari I believe. Rumor has it they might produce a kit someday...

I'm working on a Uno Turbo swap, but if I won the lottery my car would be on a transport to Ohio in a heartbeat.
 
Did someone say K20 kit?

I have documented the "pro"'s of using K20 over other motors so won't reguritate it here.

In any case, there is no engine which is "easier" than another. All will require significant engine bay mods, several custom mounts, custom shifter, clutch, axle, cooling system and wiring integration. If you have good instincts as a fabricator you'll spend about 100 hours or so making the mounts, and hopefully not be redesigning them after a few green-light clutch drops.

In my opinion, finding a clockwise rotation engine with correct orientation in the engine bay, having a similar weight to the existing unit, are the most critical choices.

That said, a Stage 1 mounting kit for a K20 from Midwest-Bayless, with cable shifter and custom axles, would look something like the first two photos.... ;)

K20-KIT-S1-a.jpg


K20-KIT-S1-d.jpg


cn-1.jpg
 
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I should know this, but I will ask anyway: When doing the K20 swap is the rear trunk left untouched or is it lost to the conversion?

Many thanks. Although I really want to know how much the kit is I won't ask for fear of immediately being given my divorce papers...

Looks great.

Karl
 
Matt, are we looking at a bolt-in kit?

Seriously, this will be a revelation for the X1/9.
Very serious-looking kit you're displaying ...
And what is Dan S. hinting of here? :excited:
 
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I am definitely going with a k20. Trying to secure a 2006 Acura RSX type S. Will know for sure next weekend, if not I will find another. Matt is there any way to get the aura link again to look at your placement?
 
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