clutch lever position

jvandyke

jvandyke

True Classic
new thread from this one
Question: where should the clutch lever (19) be in relation to the slave rod? I can only now get a hard pedal if I artificially hold the rod "in". I've been running with the nut run out to the point where there is nothing left sticking out the other side, no where near enough left for the stock (missing since I got the car) spring and such (16, 17, 18).
I can push the lever towards the engine easily to the limit of the slave's rod leaving it loose and moving even before I start to engage the clutch (I assume). That ain't right? Would that indicate an extremely worn TO bearing? I can move that lever through several inches easily.
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Throw out bearings shouldn't wear that much in that direction. I suppose if the bearing really failed it would have a great deal of slop but its hard to imagine it failing in quite that fashion. Of course I could easily be wrong, again :)

I once had the fastener (9) that held the fork (30) onto the shaft (19) break and it allowed the fork to rotate relative to the shaft. This was on a '78 Ford Fiesta.

I suspect you have a bunch of worn parts and replacing them should take care of the problem.

Karl
 
Thanks Karl. When you com'n over? :):):)
Tear down begins then. Car is inop anyway as I could not get it to operate again last night (early this morning). It ain't right and hasn't been. Will be interesting to see what's going on. Metro Cruise in 17 days!
 
There have been two clutch operating arm arrangements for the X.

Early cars had a spring that pulled the operating arm and thus the operating forks inside the bellhousing away from the TO bearing. This arrangement had a spec for freeplay between the clutch spring fingers and the TO bearing expressed in clutch pedal freeplay.

The late design is just the opposite, the springs are made to keep the TO bearing in permanent contact with the clutch spring fingers. On page 18-1 of my shop manual, it says under type, "....self-adjusting, with no pedal free travel."

I have seen posts here from "traditionalists":) who have re-done the springs on their late model cars to duplicate the early cars.
 
yep, mine came to me with no springs anywhere including the one on the end of the rod but it worked, makes upsetting noise, clutch is way at the bottom of the pedal stroke, now won't hold pressure with the rod adjusted to maximum extension, so well, yep, tear down (btw Dan, I have an envelope with a screw in it for you if I EVER remember to mail it, sorry)
 
thanks for the links, I already bought the bolts, haven't cut 'em down yet but thanks anyway, Bernice said M12 1.25 minimum 100mm so that's what I bought, hope that's right, $5.50 each.
 
Sounds like you just have a worn out clutch.

Did you order the kit with new T/O bearing?

On my '87, the release pivot arm was also binding in the pressed-in bushing (#12, bronze?) in the bell housing. I just lubed the crap out of it to free it. In my case, that may have been part of the reason why my clutch failed, maybe it was never completely engaging (maintained leverage on the T/O when there should be minimal preload) - it 'exploaded on me during a spirited high rpm 2-3shift.....

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Just an FYI Dan, others...

I tired using this TWO stud method to install a trans as well... with THE STOCK ONE stud still in place at about the 4 o'clock position.

This meant I needed to line up the THREE studs as well as the input shaft to the trans. One would think this would be the easiest course, and so did I.

I found, at least for me, (the one that's BLESSED...) that just using ONE stud at the 2 o'clock position as well as the ONE stock stud at 4 o'clock allows the third point of contact... that being the input shaft, a bit more "wiggle room" and it all slips together EASIER than using two additional studs.

Maybe its just me... but I thought I'd post this and maybe you guys might find it the same.
 
good stuff, will attack tomorrow, now anxious to see what's going on in there, not decided on wether to pull the whole A-arm or not
 
Jeff... My experience has been...

Is usually EASIER to pull the entire A-arm and just get it out of the way.

There are only two issues to concern yourself with... and that is if the "swing-bolts" were installed WRONG so that in order to remove one or more of them, you need to pull the exhaust system... and the second one is the shims, that are used to more correctly align the arms... they tend to fall out and ya never know what goes where again.

The shims never really gave me any trouble but pulling the exhaust system might be more of a bear than fussing with the A-arm in the way. I know Mr. Hoelscher would leave it in place and place the trans on top of it... THEN he would lift the trans by REACHING down from ABOVE and shoving it into the engine all by himself! (Don't mess with this guy!!! HA!)

But I found using a simple pulley and hoist also works best to support the trans while you wiggle it. Or one other person lifting it with a rope or sling and you under the car guiding it. An engine hoist will work also. The trans is about 90 pounds dry... its not terribly heavy but an awkward thing to do alone.

Here's Rudy's link from 7 years ago... My Lord its been that long!

http://www.network54.com/Forum/12159/message/1115271836/One-person+transmission+install
 
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mind the bush :)

the bushing #12 is plastic/nylon and not bronze like lookforjoe mentioned - they can easily split once the lever shaft rusts up, so be carefully if you have to remove the lever and want it left in one piece - the o-ring seal #13 sits inside, but can get damaged. Worth getting both and replacing once the box is out. Pretty sure these are available most places both sides of the atlantic, eg: bushing
 
All has gone pretty well but the gearbox doesn't want to let go of the block.
One top bolt above starter, one top bolt at about 1:00, one stud at about 3 with nut, another bolt under starter by fuel pump. I guess you must back the whole thing way from the flywheel to clear that stud, then down? Will go look at more pictures to see if I missed something. Manual just says remove bolts and nuts and doesn't really point out each and every one.
Dan's picture seems to show I got 'em all (4).
Hmmm
Got a jack under gearbox and one under the engine to take the weight and it really doesn't want to budge. Bigger hammer?
 
Sheet metal?

Sheet metal?

Check to make sure there isn't a piece of sheet metal like a cover bolted to the transaxle still needing removal. Not sure on an X but it prevents tranny removal on some other Fiats.
 
Have you done the 6mm bolt (10mm head?) that holds the cover plate on behind the flywheel - a rachet spanner works wonders IIRC
 
yah, I got that, I got 'em separated but tried to wiggle the box down and out but it rotated 45 degrees and got wedged, spent an hour or so trying to get it out, it's hopeless, going to have to back up and take the A arm off I guess. There just isn't room to back it off the clutch/stud and get it down, doing it wrong obviously. 5th gear extension fouls on the suspension hardware.
 
jvandyke said:
yah, I got that, I got 'em separated but tried to wiggle the box down and out but it rotated 45 degrees and got wedged, spent an hour or so trying to get it out, it's hopeless, going to have to back up and take the A arm off I guess. There just isn't room to back it off the clutch/stud and get it down, doing it wrong obviously. 5th gear extension fouls on the suspension hardware.
Click to expand...

Yep - it's a tight fit at best, especially with a 5-speed. If you're going to go after the A-arms, you might try again after you've slacked the bolts at the inside end of the A-arms - they'll swing a good bit lower once you take the tension off the bushings.
 
I think just taking the A arm off will pay dividends in reinstall anyway, I wasted a lot of time already trying to keep it on:mallet::mallet::mallet::mallet:
of course one swing arm bolt was inserted from the exhaust side, probably not going to slide out, I'll probably have to undo the exhaust then, the other bolt comes in from the engine side, who put those in?
Oh, and a confession. Went to take the allen head bolts off the cv joint and I didn't need a tool. That's not good, every one came out with just my fingers. I put 'em on when I did the bearing a long time ago. I swear I torqued 'em, I know you're not supposed to reuse them and even so Bernice says RED loc tite. Hmmmm
 
Ya gotta let the engine down an inch or two so that the imaginary left-right centerline of the trans and crankshaft from center out to the driver's side "aims" to a point below the chassis. That gives you the natural downslope that lets the trans clear the chassis and the downslope lets gravity help the trans slide out.

Just be careful to support the trans properly if it's halfway out as you don't want the weight of it hanging off the input shaft.

When I did mine, I dropped the suspension arm for more clearance. I had my chin on the fender lip, my legs basically splayed out mimicing the V of the suspension arm, reached in with both hands and yanked like I was rowing a boat. The darned thing practically jumped into my lap.

If it came halfway and jammed, try spraying a lot of wd-40 into the center of the cluch hub area to lube things up, then shove it back in and then strongly and sharply yank it out.
 
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