Indulge me...would you really buy a modern X1/9?

Jim McKenzie

Jim McKenzie

1972 850 Spider
I've been kicking around the idea of trading in my Mazda 3, which has been a fabulous trouble-free car I own outright...for a Fiat 500, either an Abarth or a 500T (turbo).

My main issue is that I just cannot get what I really want: an Abarth 500 Cabrio, with the two tone paint job, brown leather interior and an auto transmission. I can't even order this as a turbo...the only model that comes close is the Maserati edition..at $70k.

So I've been pouting a little.

As I pondered this, it occurred to me that what I REALLY, REALLY want is a modern X1/9, one that looks the same as our cars (but bumperless look that is)...that has AC, a six speed, really good, fast powerplant (approx 175-200 hp) and retains the Targa top, popup headlights, rear wheel (or all wheel) drive and of course our beloved mid-engine structure.

I would NOT want the X1/9 exercise done a couple of years ago by some university students that I think was front engine, front wheel drive.

If I had that option today I wouldn't even look at an Abarth 500.

Today we have the Alfa 4C coming in 2013-14, the new Fiat/Mazda spider and some Lotus choices. Other than that not too much on the horizon. The new stuff (the Velostar etc) just leaves me cold.

I apologize for my ramblings...but I want to ask a very serious question. Today, in your current situation, would you actually buy a modern X1/9 as I have described above? If it was say, $ 30,000? 40K?

I know I would...but I wonder if I am just trying a bit too hard to relive the past. Is there a real demand for this type of car today?
 
I dont think we will see a modern X1/9

Hi Jim,

Unfortunately, I don't think we will ever see a modern X1/9 from Fiat. I doubt you could build the car in today's regulatory environment. I have been looking at late model MR2s. I know it isn't an X, but I can get one for about the price of a k-20 conversion.

Of course, I have no money for a car right now, so maybe I am wrong something more attractive will come along from Fiat by the time I do have some cash.
 
I think I already have...

Jim McKenzie said:
As I pondered this, it occurred to me that what I REALLY, REALLY want is a modern X1/9, one that looks the same as our cars (but bumperless look that is)...that has AC, a six speed, really good, fast powerplant (approx 175-200 hp) and retains the Targa top, popup headlights, rear wheel (or all wheel) drive and of course our beloved mid-engine structure.

Today, in your current situation, would you actually buy a modern X1/9 as I have described above? If it was say, $ 30,000? 40K?
Click to expand...

Ring up Madd Matt and tell him you are interested in a K20 conversion. And it will be cheaper than 30 or 40k to boot.

I was faced with the same problem... my boring daily ride was getting up in years/miles (10 yrs, 215k miles) so I was looking for a replacement. There was, frankly, nothing out there in the new car marketplace that would make me even glance towards it. At least, for what I could afford to spend. So I started thinking about the cars I had owned that I enjoyed the most, and realized nothing came close to my X. I had to have another one, and Matts recipe intrigued me. I got one and haven't regretted it for a day.

Unfortunately it's been about a month since I've driven it (tore up my clutch knee and going to have surgery in a a couple days), and it will be a month or two more before I can. At least, daily. Don't tell my doctor but last Sunday I crammed myself in there and took it around the block. Had to fall on the ground to get back out but I didn't care, just wanted to stop the jonesing for a bit. :)

As an aside, if I was looking for a new car right now (I'm not), one that might be interesting is the new Scion with RWD and the Subaru boxer engine.

Pete
 
I would buy one except I only pay cash for cars so new ones are always out of my price range. Unfortunately some of the distinguishing characteristics of the X were a product of the regulatory environment of the time and will likely never be seen again on any car. Things like the pop up headlights and even the targa. Also, the regulatory environment of today makes it financially difficult to build cars that are low production especially when the platform isn't shared. Even if they used the FWD components from another car they still need to develop an entirely new chassis. Even Mazda has found the need to collaborate with another company to develop the next Miata because of the economics of a low volume car.

Of course there is always the Lotus Elise but it really falls short of being a decent alternative unless you never find yourself needing to actually put anything in your car.
 
I am with Pete! Modernize your X and you will get the best of both worlds. If I had an X worthy of the upgrade I would do it in 2013 or 2014 for sure.

Pete Whitstone said:
Ring up Madd Matt and tell him you are interested in a K20 conversion. And it will be cheaper than 30 or 40k to boot.

I was faced with the same problem... my boring daily ride was getting up in years/miles (10 yrs, 215k miles) so I was looking for a replacement. There was, frankly, nothing out there in the new car marketplace that would make me even glance towards it. At least, for what I could afford to spend. So I started thinking about the cars I had owned that I enjoyed the most, and realized nothing came close to my X. I had to have another one, and Matts recipe intrigued me. I got one and haven't regretted it for a day.

Unfortunately it's been about a month since I've driven it (tore up my clutch knee and going to have surgery in a a couple days), and it will be a month or two more before I can. At least, daily. Don't tell my doctor but last Sunday I crammed myself in there and took it around the block. Had to fall on the ground to get back out but I didn't care, just wanted to stop the jonesing for a bit. :)

As an aside, if I was looking for a new car right now (I'm not), one that might be interesting is the new Scion with RWD and the Subaru boxer engine.

Pete
Click to expand...
 
Choices...

If you had to buy a new X1/9 today, it would be more in the class of the Miata or Solstice than comparable with the Alfa 4C or the Elise. Even by 1974 standards, the X1/9 was not a fast car. It was not cheap either, but it wasn't an exotic.

If I had $40 000 to spend, I would keep the X1/9 and bought a used Elise... ;-)

I know. I'm asking that question to myself nearly everyday. The answer (for now) is I want to keep the X but also would like something offering performance right from the box. Or sometimes, I'm feeling like having a 4 seater convertible to bring the kids. Something exclusive and good looking. Like a Renault 17 TS Gordini...

Daniel Forest
Montreal, Canada
1987 X1/9
1980 X1/9
 
I just drove an X this week for the first time in about 15 years. I drove it about 4 hours from purchase location to my home through rain, cold and wind.

It felt like quite the white knuckle ride at times especially when navigating transport trucks in wet and low visibility.

The passenger compartment on this 1987 Bertone allows a lot of the exterior ambient noise into the vehicle at 4-5000rpm.

I didn't realize just how pampered I have been in my more modern daily driver.

I got home and reflected on how I will invest money into this vehicle. I would want about double the current level of power with superior transmission shifter linkage. All new suspension components bringing it back to or better than OE spec. Increased braking performance to match power increase. Improvements to the quality of interior materials as well as interior compartment sealing. And finally, a great looking exterior stance with clean bumperless, mouldingless paint, with perfectly accentuating wider wheels.

That is a fairly tall and expensive list. If I was outsourcing all of the labour I'm sure I'd get to the 15-20k mark when parts costs are factored in.

I could definitely use that amount of money to pickup a nice little used BMW M3 or the like, but that would not include the journey of building a car.

Half if not more of the fun for me is the journey so as much as I'd like additional modern toys like a new model exxy I would still like to build an original model to glory first.
 
Matthew said:
Unfortunately some of the distinguishing characteristics of the X were a product of the regulatory environment of the time and will likely never be seen again on any car. Things like the pop up headlights and even the targa.
Click to expand...

Well said. A targa top in todays environment would be out of the question.

A Volvo C30 R is my daily driver. Stunning looks that are true to the original design, safe, lots of grunt, taunt suspension/ride, decent gas mileage and a stylish, ergonomical interior. Great leases and fairly cheap to purchase a used one. Only thing I don't care for is the turning radius.

Pricewise it blows away the GTI, Subaru, etc.

New cars today leave me feeling very cold which is sad for there is nothing in my price range to lust after.
 
Targo Top

I love the Targa Top...I have not noticed they don't make them on new cars anymore...then again I have not been in the market for a new car...I too prefer the older cars over what is out now.

I thought the targa top was great...Gave you open air feel and when you had to leave the car for long times you put the top on and it is safer than a rag top.

I guess I am old school...Let's hope we can get parts for our cars for a loooong time.

If I may chime in, I would look at a newer X1/9 if they were available, but know what the car industry might do the design; might be so drastically changed by now that I probably still would prefer the classic look. I remember cars going into bubble shapes then all the plastic...I would like more horsepower, better breaking, maybe a larger body and interior...but then we might be going up in class to the Lotus or entry Ferraries (308/328/348) and that will cost money. Definetly larger rims so we can have options in the tire market.

Until then, I will keep mine and enjoy it.

Stephen
 
I, like Matthew, have never bought a new car and probably never will. Just can't stomach the depreciation I guess. If you throw out some of the main reasons why I like the X; "old" and unique, and compare it to modern cars, well, it doesn't really make it, horribly underpowered, noisy, not nearly as safe. MPG is respectable and it is super fun to drive, versatility of the targa is great, storage pretty good. I used mine as a daily commuter and would be still if the HG would hold together, having said that I'm not crying a river that I can't commute right now as my commute is no fun at all so might as well be "comfortable" and not "having fun". I don't think I could take pushing the poor thing through another winter, I proved it to myself it was doable and I'm good with that. Now I just want to clean it up, keep tinkering and enjoy it "most" of the year.
Now my wife is anxious to ditch our Town and Country and get a little car. She's liking the Mazda 3s but I'm going to make her test drive a 500 since we have a Fiat dealership near us now. Too bad they didn't start selling them 4 or 5 years ago so we'd have some used ones to scoop up.
 
No

No, I wouldn't.
I like classic cars, don't care too much for new stuff.
Even a late model fuel injected X is too modern for me. :)

Besides, it most likely wouldn't be an X, because it would be about 50% heavier.

To me, a used early Elise might be an alternative, but the engines just don't inspire me.
Also, an Elise may be an alternative for someone who sees the X as a sports/track car. It is not an alternative in terms of using it as a daily driver. For that, the Elise is just too radical.
 
Hmmm.....

If the X were modernized, I'd buy it in a heartbeat. Of course, I would only buy it if Fiat stayed true to the car's original design. You know, mid-engine, rear-wheel, very light, targa, etc.

With that being said, it is highly unlikely that it will become a reality. Even if the car were a low-maintenance car (which really takes the fun out of it), people nowadays won't be hip to the idea of having to exert some manual labor in order to remove the roof. They will be expecting to push a button and for the roof to stow itself away. That, and most people will probably get it with an auto transmission, which of course is blasphemy.

Bottom line, the modern world, in my opinion, will break the car's spirit.
 
I guess not

I bought my old one in '79 for around 6 or 7 grand, used, after the PO traded in the 6 month old '9 for a Lancia Zagato. I bought a car that looked like a flying shard of glass, was practical, and was a hard top convertible. How cool was that? I just now looked at the Alfa 4c and was amazed. But, 40,000 dollars? That's nearly a mortgage, not a car payment! The '9, in my opinion, is unique. It was/is relatively cheap, you have actual storage in one of two trunks, its hard top comes off in a few seconds to reveal a convertible, and is FUN to drive. A $40,000 cool machine that doesn't have that sparkle of fun just would not cut it. I don't think that a working person's sports car is possible to build right now, do you?
 
Thanks guys, great responses

I am impressed at the good thinking on my OP.

I especially loved the comments calling the car a " '9 ", hadn't heard that before :) and liked the deep "the modern world would break the car's spirit"...sometimes I feel that way about all of us. Really cool comment.

I hadn't thought about a K20 conversion really. I'm not sure I can afford it, absolutely sure I don't want to do any of the work myself (adding to cost of course) and not 100% sure of what I would end up with. I expect the engine and transmission power train would be a revelation of power and smoothness compared to stock...but I'd still have brakes to look at, have 40 year old electrics to deal with, would likely lose a trunk etc. So a conversion would fix the main problems, but it would not be a new car.

Matt was kind enough to PM me about the conversion, and I'm going to get more information on it because I'm fairly (check that...nearly completely) ignorant of engine swaps. The two words alone make me nervous :)

The other choices mentioned (MR2, Solstice, Miata, Elise) are all good cars, but honestly having driven them all except for the Elise, they don't have the spark of the X1/9, for me.

I'm going to shoot Matt an email and start looking at this K20 adventure.
 
Choices...

Over the course of the twenty-odd years I've had this car, I almost pulled the trigger on a few other cars:

The one that came closest was a 2002 Honda S2000. A yellow screamer that was all the drivers car a good running X is. In the end, it was my wife that convinced me to keep the X.

A 2005 Miata almost made it into my garage, nice car, but it felt to cookie-cutter for me. I would have missed the gas station questions...

A 2009 WRX tempted me, but the owner parked it next to my X when he brought it over for evaluation. It did'nt have a chance!

To satisfy my need for modern, I bought a new 2010 Mustang GT 5-speed. Great car and it perfectly compliments my X.

At the crusty age of 64, I've come to realize, for all the reasons others have stated earlier, and a few of my own, I'll never give up my X-1/9.
 
And since the chances of production of a modern X are ZERO, I am constructing my new X from scratch. Doesn't matter how much time it takes, and the sacrifices ($) I have to make. I swore as a kid that I would have a new X1/9 someday, and I will. So help me God.
 
I'd like to think I would buy a modern X, but it depends on how it was "modernized".

What I did do recently was replace my dependable daily driver (Honda Element) with something that, in some ways fills the same niche a modern X would. I bought a used 2005 Mini Cooper S convertible from an enthusiast. He had invested over $5K in upgrades to the engine, exhaust, and suspension. It's a borderline brutal car. I can't wait to autoX it.

How it's like an X:

  • plain old quirkiness
  • fun as all heck to drive
  • no self respecting MINI driver buys the automatic, 6-speed for me, baby!
  • convertible top has a sunroof feature, which approximates a targa sized opening [ame="http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nJmtkV_SHvU"]MINI Idio: 2011 MINI Convertible - Sunroof Operation - YouTube[/ame]
How it's not like an X:

  • it has almost no luggage space in trunk, no frunk at all
  • FWD, sigh.
  • Runs like a scalded cat. I have been amazed at the power this car has, and how it comes on. My neighbor with his 5.0 Mustang and he and I conducted a little, ahem, experiment, last Sunday in a zombie subdivision, and the MINI took him by a car length in a 1/8 mile with a 20 mph rolling start.
I would LOVE to transplant the MINI drive train into an X. I know the Italian chassis would likely reject the British/German drive train, but damn that supercharger rush would be fantastic in an X.
 
Ellychiprout said:
And since the chances of production of a modern X are ZERO, I am constructing my new X from scratch. Doesn't matter how much time it takes, and the sacrifices ($) I have to make. I swore as a kid that I would have a new X1/9 someday, and I will. So help me God.
Click to expand...

:thumbsup::thumbsup:
 
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