Starter issues......

petex19

petex19

True Classic
So last summer my starter wasn't cranking over every time I turned the key. Now it's hit and miss but can take as many as five times of turning the key before the starter cranks the motor over. I do hear a clicking sound when it doesn't crank over so I'm suspecting the solenoid. Would it be worth the savings and could it completely fix the problem just replacing the solenoid or should I replace the starter completely.

Also since re-manufactured starters can run close to $200. Other than a lighter unit, is there any other benefit to getting a gear reduction starter?
 
I tore down my starter and "rebuilt" it and the solenoid soon after getting the car, got a few more years out of it. Last year another round of hard starting and I pulled the starter, brought it into an old school shop and he rebuilt it for me in a few hours and $50, new brushes, new bushing, general clean up. If the solenoid needs work it may be more, but if you still have a good old school shop like that I'd try that route first.
 
Have you tried

Car Quest.

I purchased a rebuilt starter for $85 CND in August of last year ( 2014).

What is happening on your car is a common problem with the X.
The solenoid is pulling in the drive but is not making the electrical connection to complete the circuit to the starter motor. I have pulled the starter in the past and cleaned up the solenoid plunger which seems to solve the problem for a few more years.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada
 
I'm trying to understand what you're referring to when you talk about the solenoid plunger is that part of the solenoid or the starter? A new solenoid or it may be rebuilt (not sure) is only like $30 from Midwest or Ebay so if that would give me a few more years then certainly worth the investment. There are a couple of vendors on Ebay that are selling rebuilt starters for the X for as low as $69 with free shipping so hard to go wrong there. If I was going to spend the $200+ that some vendors are charging for a rebuilt unit then I would go ahead and get the gear reduction one from Mark Allison.
 
Starter woes

If your solenoid is clicking, its most likely good. Probably your brushes are worn. Small electrical motor repair shops still exists, just not on Google. We're lucky we love cars that can actually be repaired, really:).
But this sounds like a perfect excuse to buy a gear reduction starter, which is not only lighter but smaller and , I'm assuming, would draw less current and /or spin faster than the old energized field starter.
 
Ignition switch

Had the ignition switch in steering column slowly fail years ago. Gave the same symptoms you describe. You can confirm this by using a small jumper "U" shape 14 gauge solid copper house wire (in my case)(carried it with me in car) and jumping the red and brown wires (double check your wiring diagram) from the back of their connectors at column. MAKE SURE CAR IS IN NEUTRAL. In the end I installed a hot start switch under the dash (original mini's had one on the floor) rather than replace ignition switch.
 
You can also

install a Ford remote solenoid like the Volkswagen Bus people do-
if it pulls in the Bendix, that is- the Ford solenoid (usually mounted up in the top of the engine compartment where it's accessible) does the electrical connection to provide the power to the starter. Requires a little rewiring, but renews the solenoid electrical contact.
You could also try turning over the contact bar in the solenoid and cleaning the crust off the contacts it connects to in your present solenoid- I did this in my 124SC years ago.

Jeff [/I]
 
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Just so I cover all my bases before buying something new or rebuilt....
I did notice that these hit and miss starting issues started about same time I relocated my battery back to front trunk. The PO had mounted the battery in the rear trunk do to a speaker sub box being in the front trunk.

I replaced all the heavy gauge wires going from battery to starter and from starter to alternator. I also replaced the heavy ground wire from battery. Maybe I didn't purchase a heavy enough gauge wire for the distance it has to travel from battery to starter? I also never soldered the new copper fittings, just crimped them for a solid connection.

What gauge wire should I be using?
 
What gauge wire did you use?

The big factory green wire from the battery to starter is 4 gauge. You should use that or better.

Have you done the brown wire mod? I had the same exact symptoms you describe way back early in my X ownership, and the brown wire mod put an end to it.

Took me weeks of screwing with rebuilding and replacing starters before I figured out, the starters were just fine!
 
On my '78, my starting problems were resolved with the gear reduction starter. If you are planning a rebuilt starter or rebuilding your existing starter, then 'd recommend throwing a relay on the start circuit, mounted in the back by the starter.

Hookup is as follows:
1. 5/16" eyelet and 10 ga wire from starter battery cable terminal to #30 terminal on relay.
2. 10ga wire from 87 terminal on relay to solenoid spade terminal on starter
3. original spade terminal wire to terminal 86 on relay
4. wire from chassis ground to terminal 85 on relay.

Now when you activate the ignition switch, the solenoid is getting current to the spade terminal from the battery cable and 10 ga wire, instead of traveling thru dozens of feet of lesser gauge wire, asst spade connectors, the ignition switch, and the brown wire junction spade terminals that reside behind the heater box.
 
I have done the BWM years ago and will check exactly what gauge wire I used from the battery to the starter when I return home on Friday.
 
As Deane and others have said...

...your starter/solenoid may be fine. My starter test would be eliminate the ignition wiring totally and just jumper between the spade connector at the solenoid and the main battery feed as it connects to the motor - but as mentioned, take it OUT OF GEAR first :doh:

Have you checked the engine/transmission earth strap to chassis is sound too - if not take it off and give a good clean up...
 
The transmission to chassis ground strap was just replaced last year but I will check that the connection is solid.

So by jumping the starter, you are referring to what I do when I use my remote starter trigger? If that spins the starter every time with no fail then the problem would most likely be isolated to the heavy gauge wire connection to the battery or the ignition switch?
 
petex19 said:
So by jumping the starter, you are referring to what I do when I use my remote starter trigger? If that spins the starter every time with no fail then the problem would most likely be isolated to the heavy gauge wire connection to the battery or the ignition switch?
Click to expand...

No. This test, if it works reliably, tells you if the ignition switch or the wiring from the ignition switch is faulty primarily. If it is still flakey then the problem is with your main wiring from the battery to the starter.

However, if after fixing the main wiring you may still have an issue with the ignition circuit which this test will then tell you if you need to fix the ignition switch circuits to the starter.
 
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Thanks for clarifying!

I will connect my remote starter this weekend and report back. I will also ensure all connections at battery, starter and grounds are clean and tight.
 
This mod seems like something I'd like to attempt but I need some clarifying for the connections.

I'm attaching a photo of a starter from a fiat forum but don't think it's an "X" Maybe you could help me confirm where I connect steps 1-3.

Specifically I need confirmation on: starter battery cable terminal, solenoid spade terminal and original spade terminal.

Hookup is as follows:
1. 5/16" eyelet and 10 ga wire from starter battery cable terminal to #30 terminal on relay.
2. 10ga wire from 87 terminal on relay to solenoid spade terminal on starter
3. original spade terminal wire to terminal 86 on relay
4. wire from chassis ground to terminal 85 on relay.

Also is the relay just a generic relay that I can purchase at my local auto parts store or does it need to be of a certain size or type?


 
Some basic reading for understanding relays in general and how to use them:
http://www.bcae1.com/relays.htm

Go to your favorite auto parts store or buy from the web one 30 amp relay with associated mount and wire leads such as these:
http://www.ebay.com/itm/30-40-AMP-R...007?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f2348b47f
http://www.ebay.com/itm/5-PACK-30-4...H_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item5ae94a4c52&vxp=mtr
This type of relay will need to be mounted in a protected place such as the spare tire compartment which is near the starter area and will require fairly shot leads. They do make weatherproof relays as well if you decide to mount it in the engine compartment.

You should also buy an inline fuse holder to protect the car should anything short out.
Some 10ga wire, some 16ga wire and associated crimp on connectors, both male and female spade type.

Hookup is as follows:
petex19 said:
1. 5/16" eyelet and 10 ga wire from starter battery cable terminal to #30 terminal on relay.
Click to expand...
This is where the big thick wire goes on the starter. You will be running from this to the power side of your relay which is terminal 30. Get out your bifocals to see the little numbers on there... You should include an inline fuse on this just to be safe.
petex19 said:
2. 10ga wire from 87 terminal on relay to solenoid spade terminal on starter
Click to expand...
This is where the wire from the ignition switch went. Your new wire goes from the relay to this terminal.
petex19 said:
3. original spade terminal wire to terminal 86 on relay
Click to expand...
This is the wire from your ignition switch with a jumper you will make to go from the original wire to the relay. This wire does not need to be heavy gauge as it just takes a few microamps to turn the relay on and off.
petex19 said:
4. wire from chassis ground to terminal 85 on relay.
Click to expand...
This is also a light gauge wire and just needs to go to a reliable ground in the engine compartment. You might find a ground bloom near the coil or ground the to same stud the coil does.

petex19 said:
Also is the relay just a generic relay that I can purchase at my local auto parts store or does it need to be of a certain size or type?
Click to expand...
You can use either generic form of relay, DPST or STST, the powered output will be what goes to the starter solenoid. If you use a DPST you will connect the starter to 87 with no wires connected to 87a. Buy a 30amp relay.
attachment.php


relay.jpg
 
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