Another ReTorque Thread.

lookforjoe

lookforjoe

True Classic
I'm using the replacement 10mm/17mm head bolts from Bayless on my motor (3 stage torque - 20ft/lb, 40ft/lb then 62ft/lb).
My HG failure appears to be from detonation, leading to fire ring failure & breakdown of water passage barrier. The BVH head has a passage underneath the HG area by the bolt passage (not found on US 1500 head)

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Head checks out fine, was not overheated, but still wanted to be sure.

Bought the thicker HG from Bayless (.085", I think).

Anyway, since I have not retorqued before, I think I should this time to be safe.

Given that these are not the stock TTY bolts, I'm unsure whether that impacts the need to re-torque, or if it is simply based on the HG construction that dictates the re-torque.

I would like to borrow/rent the custom wrenches, but couldn't find any link - I was pretty sure someone had mentioned them being available, but perhaps I misremember..

Any thoughts?
 
re torque

on the TTY bolts you are good to go!! I am not a fan, but most cars built now use them.... I am not to fond of them myself, but do check the thickness of the gasket required. think they are supposed to be thinner.
kinda like connecting rod bolts. once torqued, on a good build (blueprinting) the con rod bolt should be measured. any variance could be catastrophic at speed.
mikemo
 
This is on cylinder #1, huh...

That's a fairly 'unusual' failure on this engine. Most failures appear to occur between #2 and #3 and are also caused by an over heating issue.

Yours just seems to be a BURN-THROUGH as you noted, without overheating... interesting!

I wonder if there was a defect or a small bit of something that caused this. I guess we'll never know unless it happens again...
 
head wrenches

I hear you need to borrow the head wrenches. they are ready to ship for the freight there and back. as stated before, make sure the wrenches don't meet interference with the cam box.........and just thought of this. the wrenches are somewhat offset, and the offset needs to be maintained on the torqueing sequence. if it is outside the torque wrench centerline, the reading will be different than on the inside.
make sense??
mikemo
I need your address
e mail me
mikemo90*aol.com
 
so .....

when you use this funky tool, do you just use the original torque specs, I thought when you used an extension for example, you're supposed to do some formula, depending on long the extension is, to make up for the twisting of the extension- just curious.....
 
Kevin Cozzo said:
when you use this funky tool, do you just use the original torque specs, I thought when you used an extension for example, you're supposed to do some formula, depending on long the extension is, to make up for the twisting of the extension- just curious.....
Click to expand...

With a straight extension you don't need to modify the torque values. The extension may twist a tad, but the torque does not change.
 
Already installed the thicker (.085") gasket from Bayless. I had completely forgotten about the VR alternative.
 
locating dowels too tall

The locating dowels need to be shortened when you shave the head. I am sure you know that Hussein, but I didn't see it mentioned in the thread. Figured I would mention it.
 
JimD said:
The locating dowels need to be shortened when you shave the head. I am sure you know that Hussein, but I didn't see it mentioned in the thread. Figured I would mention it.
Click to expand...

Hi Jim.

The dowels were checked for height compared to the recesses in block & head. I measured 7mm depth in the block & 6.75"mm in the head, so almost 14mm. The dowels were about 13mm, so even with a stock thickness gasket, no chance of the dowel/collar being the culprit.
 
lookforjoe said:
My HG failure appears to be from detonation, leading to fire ring failure & breakdown of water passage barrier
Click to expand...

Hi Hussein,

detonation would typically indicate overly advanced ignition timing or an overly lean condition (I've experienced it with both). That said, for it to be severe enough to cause a blown head gasket, you could typically hear it under load.

Are you sure that the timing is correctly adjusted on your new ignition system? Note that even if the base timing is correct, if the advance curve isn't correct for the engine then you could have issues at some other point (e.g. accelerating under load).

Cheers,
Dom.
 
dcioccarelli said:
Hi Hussein,

detonation would typically indicate overly advanced ignition timing or an overly lean condition (I've experienced it with both). That said, for it to be severe enough to cause a blown head gasket, you could typically hear it under load.

Are you sure that the timing is correctly adjusted on your new ignition system? Note that even if the base timing is correct, if the advance curve isn't correct for the engine then you could have issues at some other point (e.g. accelerating under load).

Cheers,
Dom.
Click to expand...

Hi Dom

This may be an issue, which is why I'm changing to EZK116 & LH2.4. Both are adaptive, and I definitely can tailor/map both fuel & ignition to my needs. I can use an Ostrich2.0 emulator with both to refine the maps, then burn chips once I have a good base.

I did have audible knock on several occasions, more so right after I put the motor together & was using the Allison Ignition setup. After switching to the Volvo setup, I did still have some cases of part throttle/mid load where I heard knock.

I'll have to look for it now, but the basic ignition map used in the EZK117 system for the Volvo 4 cyl application didn't have more total advance, nor a more aggressive curve. What is does have which is useless is a rev limit of around 6K.
There appeared to be some options for tuning LH2.2/EZK117 but when I pressed the few people who claimed it was possible, no substance came of it. The Saab option was rudimentary at best, and geared towards simply fattening fuel tables for turbo application.

I'll be driving it carefully until I do the LH2.4 conversion.

I took care of the needed trigger wheel & sensor setup while I had it apart.

6A9CAB80-CEDB-4D88-89AE-3C43D2E0F0A1_zpsa49p7eog.jpg


F16EE251-3DD4-4E7D-99D1-9A5A473695C5_zpsroeohmti.jpg
 
Tools arrived safely last night, thank you Mike!

Only problem is they are for 19mm head bolts... I'm going to use them as a template & make 17mm versions today.

Off to Home Depot to see what I can adapt for this purpose.
 
wrenches

crap!!!!
sorry dude.
you mentioned TTY bolts and they are smaller than what I sent.
I will go to the toolbox and see if I have another set.
if you have access to a snap on or mac distributer they have a "crows" foot socket, but it is all enclosed. looks like a box end wrench, but takes an extension and ratchet.
again...sorry
mikemo
 
mikemo90 said:
crap!!!!
sorry dude.
you mentioned TTY bolts and they are smaller than what I sent.
I will go to the toolbox and see if I have another set.
if you have access to a snap on or mac distributer they have a "crows" foot socket, but it is all enclosed. looks like a box end wrench, but takes an extension and ratchet.
again...sorry
mikemo
Click to expand...

I'm not using TTY, sorry for the confusion.

I'm using the standard bolts .

I made tools based on yours.

Mike's tools

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I never seen pics of the these "in action", so I had no idea actually why two were needed for the intake side. Once I had them in hand, it was obvious :rolleyes2:

Mine. Torque rod & mount plate, alternator bracket, intake have to be removed for access. Better than also removing the cam box / timing belt for sure.

5280B605-6DFB-4D72-9AEF-9D34F42675C0_zpserlkz71z.jpg


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00A5D6CD-CFAF-44EF-9DD5-C2E9B5A8EC67_zps1wrqwpud.jpg


All the bolts moved 1 flat further in the retorque (62ft/lb) process.
 
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