suspension assessment

jvandyke

jvandyke

True Classic
Now that I've been driving my X for a few weeks, I really have to do something about the suspension (and tires).
Babe in the woods here.....
Any little imperfection in the road sends the car into hysterics. Can I assume this is struts or could it be some bushings or both?
Can you tell by eyeballing it or do you have to know the "feel"?
I'm thinking renew both struts and all bushings, possibly cut a coil out of the stock springs. Of course, I don't know the work involved in this so......
 
An overall visual inspection is a good way to start. Always work safely with the car supported firmly on jackstands or ramps and never just a jack (even a floor jack) or on unlevel or unstable ground.

The strut tops (bearing) are a good place to start looking. The top nut and collar should be relatively centered in the chassis opening. Often they will be collapsed to one side or the other. These are available new, but there have been quality concerns with them.

Look for splitting or collapsing bushings, torn ball joint boots. Torn ball joint boots are a bad sign, and could mean dirt is wearing out the joint. To test the ball joint use very large channel locks to compress the ball stud into the joint, mush more than a slight movement is worn. If possible remove the boot and inspect the joint for cracks. It should be greased, a dry joint will fail. Push and pull on the wheel to check for play, for wear. Sometimes it can be tricky to tell what part is worn if you feel play, so consider enlisting help when checking things over. One person can apply forces to the wheel while the other feels around for looseness or movement at various components and locations.

Struts are both easy and difficult to diagnose. The "bounce test" will tell you if the compression/rebound dampening function is working. The bounce test is a matter of pushing down sharply and repeatedly on the bumper near the corner, to get the corner of the car bouncing. When you stop the strut should dampen the movement within a bounce or two. More residual movement than that and the strut is worn out. This test should be repeated for each corner of the car. Any clunking or other odd noises are also a wear sign. You can also visually check for leaking oil at the top of the outer cylinder.

Other things to check for are bent parts, usually from incorrect jacking, and oil-softened rubber components like bushings that are expected to fail. This is why active leaks can be so destructive.

After a thorough visual, also consider that a proper alignment is essential to handling. Tire condition and air pressure are important too.

The strut assembly is not too difficult to extract; a few small nuts up top at the strut bearing and one large bolt at the hub assembly at the bottom. You have to use a proper strut spring compressor to safely remove the strut from the strut/spring assembly, which is held together by the large nut on top. An impact gun comes in handy for loosening and tightening this nut. The strut spring stores a tremendous amount of energy and should not be removed without the proper tools. Strut spring compressor tools are not too expensive and can also be rented.

Hope this helps!
 
Some careful inspection and applied force will tell you a great deal about the state of the suspension. You will be surprised at how much of a difference good tires properly balanced can make. A set of 185/60 13 tire would probably make a world of difference. A good alignment would also be very much in order.

Some basic things you can check with the car on the ground. The afore mentioned bounce test of the shock absorbers.

The X has very direct steering so any input to the steering wheel should produce motion at the wheels. Jiggling the wheel from side to side should show up any relative loss of motion. Alternatively turn the wheel all the way to the right, kneel down and grasp the tie rod end where it attaches to the steering knuckle with your thumb and forefinger wrapped around the rubber boot and have a friend jiggle the wheel back and forth. If you can feel relative motion as they jiggle you likely need to replace the tie rod end. Repeat for the other side with the wheel turned all the way left.

Go from tire to tire, put your foot so your big toe is partially up the sidewall and using your body weight pull out and push in on the top of the wheel (12 oclock position). Any relative motion of the wheel points to bad wheel bearings, bad shock mounts or lower ball joint.

While still knelt down at each wheel grasp each wheel at the sides (9 and 3 positions) and try to move the tire from side to side. You are looking for small movement not a lot (ie don't try and turn the wheel just try to feel for play in the tie rod ends and steering rack mounts).

To really check the ball joints at the bottom of the struts you need to jack up the car and use a bar to feel for relative motion between the strut and the lower suspension arm. You will be trying to feel relative motion between the lower arm and the steering knuckle (be careful to not damage the rubber boot of the ball joint).

Hope that helps.
 
Good stuff, thanks guys. I think my first move is to get some good tires, I'll assess suspension after that I guess. My concern is rough roads are plain torture on both the car and myself, any minor imperfection has quite an impact on the car, so much so I am scared to "have fun with it" but that's probably a good thing as two of the four tires are smooth as a baby's butt and the other two aren't much better. The two with some tread are on the front. The roads in Michigan are some of the worst in the country, the roads in Grand Rapids are some of the worst in Michigan, so I really suffer. I plan my driving to avoid the worst of them. Even so, on a couple on/off ramps, places where it is usually safe to have some fun, there are some seams, they are bumps no doubt but not bad, I hit one while going at a spritely pace and the whole car wanted to fly into the guard rail (or so it felt).
 
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The good old "spritely pace"! lmfao. :lol: Tires make a huge difference in the way it handles. I replaced my 30 year old originals this spring and it was like getting a new car. All I could find locally was 175/70/13's though. Had to trim the plastic in the front wheel wells to keep them from rubbing while turning.
 
CAREFUL!

Honestly (though a little embarassing) my experience is that bald tires handle better than new tires. No tread squirm!

It sounds like you have a seriously dangerous problem. Something loose is trying to STEER your car other than straight. Something worn that severly could break!

Since you're in Michigan, in addition to the excellent posts above, examine your suspension mounting points for RUST. You may have something broken loose under there.

Do this before you drive the car another mile!! We don't want to loose a fellow X driver......:sigh:
 
Just a thought

jvandyke said:
The roads in Michigan are some of the worst in the country, the roads in Grand Rapids are some of the worst in Michigan, so I really suffer. I plan my driving to avoid the worst of them. Even so, on a couple on/off ramps, places where it is usually safe to have some fun, there are some seams, they are bumps no doubt but not bad, I hit one while going at a spritely pace and the whole car wanted to fly into the guard rail (or so it felt).
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Earlier in the thread, you mentioned possibly cutting your springs. If the roads are that bad, I would suggest sticking with the stock setup. Cutting the springs will stiffen up the front end and beat you up even more. :(
 
$47 per tire at tirerack but $75 at the tire shop I like....I don't like them that much though. I'll have to see if they'll mount and balance if I buy from tirerack and ship and it will still be better than $300 through them.
Time to shop around I guess. I wanted to remove the wheels myself, have the old rubber stripped off, paint my wheels, then get the new rubber put on, balanced. That's less work for them too I'd imagine. Not much but a bit less.
Okay, looks like to buy from tirerack and have them sent to a local shop and pay for mount and balance, stems and disposal would be around $300, The shop I like quoted $300, plus tax I'd be at $18, would I pay $18 to deal with guys I like? In a heartbeat, so that's cool.
 
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ahh yes but....

driving up 31 is a beautiful trip!! you are right though, our roads suck. I run IAP springs and its about all I can take. the nice part is I view the potholes like pylons, it makes trips more fun ;)


Odie
 
autox19 said:
driving up 31 is a beautiful trip!! you are right though, our roads suck. I run IAP springs and its about all I can take. the nice part is I view the potholes like pylons, it makes trips more fun ;)


Odie
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Yep, it can be fun to avoid them, when you can, but around here there are more pothole then road, you have no choice but to pick the best possible path which is often still terrible, while the car behind you tailgates you because he doesn't care about the road, sitting 4 feet up in an SUV.
I will pull the front wheels off tonight and see if my inexperienced eye can spot anything obviously wrong. I should add that when the road is smooth the car tracks as straight as can be and is responsive and handles well, hit a bump though and all bets are off. If I bounce the corners while sitting in the drive it bobs up and down one or two cycles and makes no noise.......
I'm working off the assumption the struts are tired but what do I know.
 
Definitely sounds like tired struts. I would plan on a new set of those and a upper strut mounts/bearings. The tires will also help. Going through the rest of the parts checking will be very worthwhile as will the realignment.

You are making great progress in resurrecting this car, keep up the excellent work.
 
Karl, you drive your X through Grand Rapids upon occasion too. Have you ever tried to drive down Kalamazoo Ave between Boston and Hall? OMG I thought the car was going to disintegrate. Some of these roads are unbelievable. I have the Dodge today, left the X in garage as it has a water leak and it's downright suicide to drive on wet roads with those tires like that. I refuse.
 
Kazoo is definitely rough above Alger, as are so many others. I tend to modify my travels a bit to keep from losing fillings from my teeth... I live just off Hall in EGR near Lakeside Elem.

Whats really bad now is the transition in Holland from 196/31 to 196 East, its completely disintegrated (I just drove back from Chi town this evening).

Upper Monroe has been scary for a while as are so many other streets here, its hard to believe they have spent any money on the roads at times.
 
I've grounded my X as at least one of the tires is too far gone for any sane person to use and the spare is similar. Pulled all four wheels (checked for play by pushing and pulling at 9-3 o'clock and 12-6 o'clock and all felt solid). Here's some pictures and DON'T PREACH at me, I'm well aware that one tire is a widow maker and side walls on the others are almost as bad. As I jacked up the front there was a "rubbing" "popping" sound as the suspension unloaded, sounded like the passenger side. Note that one of these is a video of the car bouncing.
http://gallery.me.com/jvandyke#100430
Here's the "widow maker" (it was on the driver's front when I got the car, and no belts were exposed yet, I moved it to the driver's rear but no longer....)
widowmakertire.jpg
 
www.tirerack.com...

Sumitumo HTR200s - 185HR60x13... drop ship to a dealer near you... and get back on the road for about 300 or so...

As a Papa and a Grand-Papa... I believe I have the RIGHT to tell ya not to be stupid. Ya really needed to ground the car way before this... your kids need their Daddy!
 
lookforjoe said:
Yikes!!!
shock.gif


I can't believe you were driving on that!
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Yeah, I know. I knew it was very iffy so I was checking it often, I could feel something was going south on the drive home yesterday. At low speeds there was a pronounced regular bounce from that corner. That tire isn't round anymore.:grin:

Maybe all this iffy rubber is a bigger factor in the poor ride than I thought. Did you see my bounce test video? That seems okay to me, it doesn't make any clunks when I do that. Maybe i don't need struts after all.
 
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