850 Stabilizer bars.

ramona300

ramona300

True Classic
Stabilizer/rollbar /sway bar depending where you live. Does anyone know the dimensions of the front and rear bars like Scuderia Topolino used to sell? I am after the diameter and whether they are hollow or not. Or any suggestions. Currently I have a wishbone front with Bilstein coil overs and no sway bar. Rear is gas shocks and Abarth 1300 coils and the stock sway bar.
 
I have a new Addco sway bar for installing on the front on an 850 coupe. The stock front bar gets moved to the rear and the Addco gets installed on the front (or is the other way around?). It's 3/4" dia. and solid. I got it along with a urethane bushing kit for the bar and links on ebay years ago. It's going to go on my 1300/124.
 
I sent Addco an Email a few weeks ago asking if the thicker 850 bar was available and I'm still waiting for a reply. I'll try a phone call next. On my '67 Spider I ran the Addco bar at the rear and moved the rear bar to the front. With Carrera shocks, 1300/124 reverse eye and coil springs and P-7 Pirelli's it was a very good auto-X car. The 8-port PBS motor helped.
 
Thanks for the replies. I think I will put the original front one back on and try that first. John Edwards in his book talks about a 124 bar on the front of his sedan. When he changed to coil over fronts he removed both bars!
 
By going to higher rate (higher pound load) springs, front and rear, one can tune out the need for bars.

Steve Hoelscher has written a number of guides around this both for the X1/9 and the MR2, both of which he has won many Autocross championships with.

This tends to be more appropriate for track cars versus road cars. In your case likely perfect. You might consider contacting him, he is both knowledgeable and kindly willing to share what he has learned.
 
kmead said:
By going to higher rate (higher pound load) springs, front and rear, one can tune out the need for bars.

Steve Hoelscher has written a number of guides around this both for the X1/9 and the MR2, both of which he has won many Autocross championships with.

This tends to be more appropriate for track cars versus road cars. In your case likely perfect. You might consider contacting him, he is both knowledgeable and kindly willing to share what he has learned.
Click to expand...
Interesting. I’ve never heard that theory but then I don’t know Autocross. All the track cars I’ve seen use sway bars. Even F1 is still using some form of sway bar to the the two sides together.
I’ll have to find some Hoelscher articles to educate myself.
 
I have the right springs for and aft I'm fairly confidant of that. The car feels unsettled at speed in some corners on the circuit. Looking at my collection of photos of 850 race cars they all have front roll bars and fairly thick ones. I'm thinking myredracecar might be on the money with his 3/4 inch solid bar. Hillclimb this Sunday so I think I will install the stock item for that and try something in the 20mm range after that. The car does not roll much it just feels not quite right!
 

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ramona300 said:
I have the right springs for and aft I'm fairly confidant of that. The car feels unsettled at speed in some corners on the circuit. Looking at my collection of photos of 850 race cars they all have front roll bars and fairly thick ones. I'm thinking myredracecar might be on the money with his 3/4 inch solid bar. Hillclimb this Sunday so I think I will install the stock item for that and try something in the 20mm range after that. The car does not roll much it just feels not quite right!
Click to expand...
Could be an alignment issue. Have you check the alignment of the rear wheels?
 
myredracer said:
I have a new Addco sway bar for installing on the front on an 850 coupe. The stock front bar gets moved to the rear and the Addco gets installed on the front (or is the other way around?). It's 3/4" dia. and solid.
Click to expand...

It's the other way around. In your case, the stock 14mm front bar gets discarded, the stock 16mm rear bar gets moved to the front, & your Addco 3/4" bar gets installed on the rear.
 
ramona300 said:
Rear has 1.3 degrees toe in. Front 1.1 toe out.
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That seems like a lot of toe in the rear. Not sure how that changes with suspension travel.
In the front I would try zero toe. Toe out helps with turn in but can make the car twitchy. Ive never raced an 850 but I would think being so light at the front and short wheelbase you wouldn’t need turn in help.
 
NM850 said:
That seems like a lot of toe in the rear. Not sure how that changes with suspension travel.
In the front I would try zero toe. Toe out helps with turn in but can make the car twitchy. Ive never raced an 850 but I would think being so light at the front and short wheelbase you wouldn’t need turn in help.
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The rear toe in figures is what John Edwards recommends in his book for Autocross. For road racing he has 0 to 1/8th toe in. The settings I use are the same as a friends X19 track car but I might as well try with reduced toe in in the rear.
 
Jeff Stich said:
It's the other way around. In your case, the stock 14mm front bar gets discarded, the stock 16mm rear bar gets moved to the front, & your Addco 3/4" bar gets installed on the rear.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that Jeff. I will be running the front 14mm and the stock rear 16mm this weekend then sorting out new bars later.
 
NM850 said:
That seems like a lot of toe in the rear. Not sure how that changes with suspension travel.
In the front I would try zero toe. Toe out helps with turn in but can make the car twitchy. Ive never raced an 850 but I would think being so light at the front and short wheelbase you wouldn’t need turn in help.
Click to expand...
Thanks for that. Reading this page on toe settings I'm tending to think you are right.
https://motoiq.com/the-ultimate-guide-to-suspension-and-handling-part-seven-tuning-your-toe/
 
The old FAZA 850 Competition Manual says:

Front: -1°camber with 1mm toe in.
Rear: -3°camber with 2mm toe in.

faza850racesuspension.JPG
 
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Jeff Stich said:
The old FAZA 850 Competition Manual says:

Front: -1°camber with 1mm toe in.
Rear: -3°camber with 2mm toe in.
Click to expand...
Good place to start but I’m guessing modern track tires make it a whole new puzzle.
At least that’s how it was when I tried to use specs from the late 70s on my race car.
 
Front roll bar is on. Tomorrow I will give the front a touch of toe in. The rear looks like it has a lot of toe in in the photo but holding a long bar on the tyre at the centreline while the car sits on the trailer it looks like very little. Was set at 3mm.
 
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