2019 Dependability Ratings
- Thread starter Rodger
- Start date
lookforjoe
True Classic
I saw that. I'm not sure I will ever buy anything never than 2017 or 2018, whichever year started the nonsense with the engine turning off every time you come to a stop, so I don't pay much attention to any of that rating nonsense. Besides that, all new cars have teething issues, and I never buy new 
I don't like the level of software control on my 2012, the newer ones are just nuts. Just keep getting further from actually needing a driver to monitor & make decisions.
I don't like the level of software control on my 2012, the newer ones are just nuts. Just keep getting further from actually needing a driver to monitor & make decisions.
Pete Whitstone
True Classic
My wife's Infiniti Q60 (fantastic car, btw) is a 2017 and has that feature. It is override-able with a switch on the dash, but the switch does not remember its last setting the way most things on the car do. First thing I do after startup is reach for that switch. Not that I'm not concerned about the environment, but I am more concerned about having to replace the starter motor 5x sooner than usual.
Pete
Mechanogeek
True Classic
The auto-stop-start feature is one of several reasons I traded in my 2017 Cadillac CT6 and got a 2018 Buick Encore instead (and many thousands of dollars in return). Not sure why the 4cyl Encore doesn't have that 'feature', but I certainly don't miss it! On the Caddy, you also had to press a button every time you started the car in order to disable the Auto-Stop-Start feature, and there was no way to turn it off permanently. The way I drive, and the traffic in Jacksonville caused real frustration as the car paused too long before it decided to accelerate, causing the drivers behind me to ALSO get angry.
The other reason was the continual battle between the engine settings and automatic transmission actions. The computer controlled 8 speed in my 3.6l CT6 continually hunted for gears, often times held a gear until redline when you were just cruising, and sometimes refused to downshift. Turned the owner experience into a complete frustration case. Oddly enough, my cheap little Buick with a much less intelligent 6 speed auto is a much more pleasant drive. And as a final dig, Cadillac to this day refuses to admit that there were problems with the transmission tuning. But then, Cadillac is getting out of the car business anyway.
There were other issues, mostly with the infotainment interface and etc. I really enjoy now driving a lower-end car without all of the bells and whistles, because whoever designed the interface and settings must be a brain dead zombie driver that shouldn't be allowed to operate a motor vehicle anyway.
The other reason was the continual battle between the engine settings and automatic transmission actions. The computer controlled 8 speed in my 3.6l CT6 continually hunted for gears, often times held a gear until redline when you were just cruising, and sometimes refused to downshift. Turned the owner experience into a complete frustration case. Oddly enough, my cheap little Buick with a much less intelligent 6 speed auto is a much more pleasant drive. And as a final dig, Cadillac to this day refuses to admit that there were problems with the transmission tuning. But then, Cadillac is getting out of the car business anyway.
There were other issues, mostly with the infotainment interface and etc. I really enjoy now driving a lower-end car without all of the bells and whistles, because whoever designed the interface and settings must be a brain dead zombie driver that shouldn't be allowed to operate a motor vehicle anyway.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Reliability ratings based on what metric? First day or first century of daily driving or ?
These published factoids typically tell zero about their methodology or standards or any of the technical details of how they arrived at their scores. To really know how reliable, durable, abuse tolerant any moto might be would require disclosure of each and every design detail and testing parameter which NO manufacture will publish publicly or to their industry.
This is much about PR promotion and marketing with lesser about actual real world conditions. I'm still of the opinion that taking a completely stock moto to an endurance race like 24 Hours of LeMons then running that moto to at and beyond it's ability hour after hour will tell a LOT more about real world durability, durability and more than these PR rants. Beyond this, these ratings tell about zero about how a specific moto performs in real world crashes to protect their occupants... which appears to be on the bottom of the marketable list of features.
There is a choice to believe or not believe any of what is published.
BTW, the 1991 SAAB-Scania 9000 turbo is currently at 420,xxx miles on the original B234L engine bottom end and continues as a daily driver. The 1993, 9000 Aero is at 298,xxx miles and also a daily driver.
Bernice
These published factoids typically tell zero about their methodology or standards or any of the technical details of how they arrived at their scores. To really know how reliable, durable, abuse tolerant any moto might be would require disclosure of each and every design detail and testing parameter which NO manufacture will publish publicly or to their industry.
This is much about PR promotion and marketing with lesser about actual real world conditions. I'm still of the opinion that taking a completely stock moto to an endurance race like 24 Hours of LeMons then running that moto to at and beyond it's ability hour after hour will tell a LOT more about real world durability, durability and more than these PR rants. Beyond this, these ratings tell about zero about how a specific moto performs in real world crashes to protect their occupants... which appears to be on the bottom of the marketable list of features.
There is a choice to believe or not believe any of what is published.
BTW, the 1991 SAAB-Scania 9000 turbo is currently at 420,xxx miles on the original B234L engine bottom end and continues as a daily driver. The 1993, 9000 Aero is at 298,xxx miles and also a daily driver.
Bernice
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
But to be totally honest, that is really rather accurate...unfortunately. However I don't buy this nature of vehicle for its reliability. I buy it for its fun factor and/or style.
Agree. In fact I'd move that back a few years earlier (depending on the manufacturer). I like the theory of newer technology on vehicles. But in application I don't find it as enjoyable to own/drive. And service/repair costs are outrageous when the technology fails.
myronx19
True Classic
I love my 2013 Abarth 500, so fun - I also ****ing hate it.. I'm not surprised that Fiat is DFL.. no surprise. I mean, my car seems to have a lot of issues - some quite serious, left me stranded several times now, it's terrible in my opinion. I want to love it, but it could have been much better. It makes my X1/9 seem super reliable in comparison! It's a lot of fun to drive, and the noise is great.. but forgiving the issues gets tiresome when cars are SO much better today.
I also have a 2006 Pontiac Vibe that I've had since new (Toyota Matrix), now at 305K kms.. quite durable and reliable, but boring. I mostly change oil and wiper blades, everything else is still mostly original. Easy to service when it does need something. No wonder Toyota usually makes it to the top of these lists.
Stop/Start starter motors are designed to have a more severe duty cycle - typically..
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Now that is REALLY saying something!
With no weird electromagical stuff, no boosted steering or brakes, mechanical distributor and fuel pump... a completely sorted early X (or likely any other car of the era) will be very reliable just because there isn't that much to break and even less that can break in ways that can't be fixed with what you have in a basic toolbox.
The catch here is that phrase "completely sorted". The cars come to us in various states of neglect and with old parts reaching the end of their design life. Often it's easier to drive the car until the next thing breaks than to go through EVERYTHING up front. One of my '74 X's once stranded my wife because the 40-year-old throttle cable jammed.... but the 2013 500 Pop once stranded her because the clutch failed at 55000 miles. Which of these is a bigger reliability downcheck?
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
So true. And just try to "completely sort" a new car. No such thing.
Naturally all of us here tend to be what some would call "car guys". Hopefully that means we keep our vehicles somewhat sorted and properly maintained. I suppose it is different for the more typical "just turn the key and drive it until it won't go any more" population. Which is the more common type drivers of newer cars.
Frank L. Di Gioia
True Classic
I agree! My 2016 Caddy CTS (less than 13,000 miles) has the pain in the *** auto feature to "increase" it's potential gas mileage. It's irritating but there's another "new car" feature that's DANGEROUS! When you shut it off (the car) the seat automatically tilts back and slides to the rear without the ability to stop it. My daughter had major surgery and was in the rear seat behind me. When I stopped she was half way out of the car and nearly pinned against the rear door jamb and there was nothing I could do. Next major complaint is the LACK OF WORKING TRACTION CONTROL. Given gas from a stop and turning will easily induce fishtailing. In the rain it's non-existent. I complained to the dealership and was told it was fine BUT I WAS TO EXPECT THAT WHEN THE ROADS WERE SLIPPERY. DAH, so what does it do? Second guy told me it's impossible to tell the difference between it being on or off. That was when the boss wasn't around. In way of contrast my 2008 Lotus Elise SC could be taken to 6000 RPM and the clutch dropped without the tires ever breaking loose. I once tried to impress (OK, kid stuff) everyone and ended up leaving like a little old lady. Different story when switched off though. Glad to hear the Buick may offer an alternative that works!
carl
True Classic
I'm beginning to think the mid 90s may have been the golden age of cars, at least for me. My experience was based on Honda/Acura products such as the Prelude (last iteration) and my daughter's many Civics. Wonderful cars with just enough electronics to control the engine satisfactorily.
Mechanogeek
True Classic
One of the other absolutely annoying things was a HYPER active traction control system. Picture Florida, smooth road, smooth intersection. Turning right (gotta beat that traffic), and the car nearly STOPS in it's tracks, since it believes you shouldn't be accelerating around a corner. WHAT? The CT6 is an all-wheel drive powerhouse, that nearly gets you killed because IT decides whether you should accelerate from a stop. The same problem occurs, regardless of whether traction control is on or off, but is slightly less lethal when it was off. So, start the car, turn off the auto-start-stop, turn off traction control, and pray that the transmission doesn't act like a jackass.
I'm done with Cadillac.
Mechanogeek
True Classic
Here is the dependability rating. So many people misinterpret what this means.
So, this means that, in the last 12 months, for vehicles that were 3 years old, there were 2.5 problems on average for every new Fiat sold.
Compared to Lexus, which had 1.06 problems on average in the last 12 months, for vehicles that were 3 years old.
This is NOT a measure of new-vehicle teething problems.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
So, this means that, in the last 12 months, for vehicles that were 3 years old, there were 2.5 problems on average for every new Fiat sold.
Compared to Lexus, which had 1.06 problems on average in the last 12 months, for vehicles that were 3 years old.
This is NOT a measure of new-vehicle teething problems.
https://www.jdpower.com/business/press-releases/2019-us-vehicle-dependability-studyvds
Frank L. Di Gioia
True Classic
The right turn panic happened to me TWICE! I thought it was the "delay" to prevent unintended acceleration "feature" in new cars. In Las Vegas the 45 MPH traffic on the wide Blvd's go about 55. I put the "go pedal" from Fiat Madness in my Abarth 500 and don't have to worry about it's thinking for me. I have enough trouble doing that alone...