Euro twin exhaust manifold wanted

Rodger

Rodger

True Classic
in the recent thread on Performance Head options, SteveC commented that changing to the euro four into two manifold is a great way to improve performance and gain about 8 hp. Anyone have one they want to part with? Know where to find one? Are they the same as the US ‘74 exhaust manifold?
 
I would assume so. But a header would make even more power and probably cost less after the downpipe and adaptation is done
 
I recall we discussed these manifolds before. If I'm not mistaken the US '74 manifold is similar but has a different location for the outlet and a smaller port size than the actual Euro manifold. There is also a newer Euro version (the part number was listed in the prior discussions) that is readily available new. I believe it is the same port size as the earlier Euro one but also has a slightly different placement of the outlet. The outlet placement only matters if you intend to utilize a exhaust system designed for the manifold. Otherwise you will be making a custom one so the outlet location won't matter. Shipping from Europe is a bit of a hurdle due to the weight. If that common part number is used then you can search online for lots of pricing options.
 
top euro 1300, middle aftermarket (IMASAF) tipo style manifold 7691880, lower genuine Fiat Tipo style manifold 7691880

20190317_132557.jpg
1300 flange gasket below, tipo flange gasket above... major size difference.
20190317_132856.jpg

while the tipo manifold may measure similarly at the manifold to head face as other manifolds, it is simply cavernous inside by comparison.

SteveC
 
Excellent. Seems to confirm what I remembered; the '74 US manifold is not the same as a Euro one, and the later Euro ("Tipo", # 7691880) manifold is the better choice. I've noticed quite a few of those late Euro ones available online, new and used. I think if you are going to spend the shopping cost to get one from Europe then you might as well buy a new one to avoid any possibility of cracks, warpage, etc.
 
As for the "aftermarket tubular header" vs "factory cast iron manifold" question. This was also discussed extensively in the past. It might come down to your goals: If it is a 'street' only car with mild mods then the cast iron manifold should be quieter, seal better, and last longer without issues. But if it is a 'track' car with extensive mods then a tube header should offer a bit more performance, with the trade offs just mentioned. The particular design of the tube header will make a difference in how it performs (torque vs HP). The overall cost of either option isn't that much different, and either will likely require some level of modification/fabrication to install.
 
Exhaust Manifold 7891880 Lancia Dedra 1.6-Delta -Tipo for reference

The efficacy of a tube header versus a manifold will likely come down to the way things are done below the manifold. I would venture to say that the difference would be minor for all but the most all out builds. Going from the four ports to two outlets of the manifold and then carry the two tubes down below the crossmember then bring the two into one to then go to a more appropriate exhaust would likely elicit something very nearly the same as a tubular header. Conjecture I know, at some point in the future I hope to prove it out.
 
A header setup is pretty much ready for installing a muffler, usually either a typical three bolt flange mount or even ready to bolt to the existing stock muffler. Trying to adapt the two pipe down pipe from a factory set up will require welding on a collector and welding other pipes to get the end in a muffler friendly location. Many of us don't have tube benders and adequate welding skills to fab up the above so headers become the logical choice just for an ease of installation standpoint.
 
kmead said:
Exhaust Manifold 7891880 Lancia Dedra 1.6-Delta -Tipo for reference

The efficacy of a tube header versus a manifold will likely come down to the way things are done below the manifold. I would venture to say that the difference would be minor for all but the most all out builds. Going from the four ports to two outlets of the manifold and then carry the two tubes down below the crossmember then bring the two into one to then go to a more appropriate exhaust would likely elicit something very nearly the same as a tubular header. Conjecture I know, at some point in the future I hope to prove it out.
Click to expand...
I can say that there was a substantial performance improvement going from the stock 74 exhaust to a header system. I am sure something less restrictive than the stock muffler would have helped the stock 4-2 manifold setup.
 
fiatfactory said:
top euro 1300, middle aftermarket (IMASAF) tipo style manifold 7691880, lower genuine Fiat Tipo style manifold 7691880

View attachment 20462
1300 flange gasket below, tipo flange gasket above... major size difference.
View attachment 20463

while the tipo manifold may measure similarly at the manifold to head face as other manifolds, it is simply cavernous inside by comparison.

SteveC
Click to expand...
So, it would seem that the Tipo manifold would be better than the Euro 1300? Or am I missing something.
 
Rodger said:
So, it would seem that the Tipo manifold would be better than the Euro 1300? Or am I missing something.
Click to expand...

You are correct sir. I cant tell if the one that Eurosport offers is an aftermarket generic or what it is.

There was a guy on here a year or so ago who had one for sale down in Niles, he wanted silly money for it relatively speaking. He suggested it worked fine with his AC equipped ‘86 X.

carl said:
A header setup is pretty much ready for installing a muffler, usually either a typical three bolt flange mount or even ready to bolt to the existing stock muffler. Trying to adapt the two pipe down pipe from a factory set up will require welding on a collector and welding other pipes to get the end in a muffler friendly location. Many of us don't have tube benders and adequate welding skills to fab up the above so headers become the logical choice just for an ease of installation standpoint.
Click to expand...

True, it would require more work to get it complete. I hope to emulate Roger in the future and become a multi skilled maker. One can dream.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
As for the "aftermarket tubular header" vs "factory cast iron manifold" question. This was also discussed extensively in the past. It might come down to your goals: If it is a 'street' only car with mild mods then the cast iron manifold should be quieter, seal better, and last longer without issues. But if it is a 'track' car with extensive mods then a tube header should offer a bit more performance, with the trade offs just mentioned. The particular design of the tube header will make a difference in how it performs (torque vs HP). The overall cost of either option isn't that much different, and either will likely require some level of modification/fabrication to install.
Click to expand...
The application for this is my '79 that already has the MWB performance upgraded FI head. I don't want a loud exhaust, just a little more performance. Plus, I really don't like how the aftermarket headers go under the cross member. For my exhaust, I have a NOS quad tip free flow exhaust that Art Bayless used to sell long ago. I had one on my car from about 1981 on until it rusted out. It lasted about 20 years or so. I found a new one a couple of years ago and ran it for a little while until I decided to strip the ‘79 for restoration. Once I get the K20 done, restoring the ‘79 is next. I figure with my new welding skills, I can easily fab the 2 into one pipe.
 
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I really wish someone would replicate the old Ansa 4:2 tubular header. It was a great design for street driving in terms of the power band, the fit (did not go under the crossmember), clearance (fit with AC), and it mated up to a great Ansa exhaust system or the stock Euro system.
 
My wife's car (the blue one) has as a header that goes under the cross member. We have already had to repair it from hitting something. Also found out that you can not install it with the head on, and the passenger side drive shaft installed (pulled it out with the head off and did not think) (yea I am human) though it does give the car a noticeable improvement on power We both are not happy about the exhaust being so low.
 
You can turn this...
exhaust 025.jpg

into this....

bmck_exhaust.jpg

that fits like this....

bmck_exhaust_2.jpg

It passes under the chassis transverse cross member... not the engine cross member ... as seen here it sits higher than the engine cross member jacking point.

Real Ansa offering back in the day was routed just like this (this is a repro) ... see the long secondary pipes, they pass under the chassis transverse cross member...
exhaust 021.jpg

real Ansa headers look like these...
ansa1300x19header1.jpg

or you can use the stock OE cast manifold, any type.. and fabricate your own system from scratch... here's one I've replicated a few times (tail pipe is missing in these shots) mounted like the '74 or euro systems, on the transmission, not on springs. 2.25" muffler and mandrel bends leading into it... left hand outlet

2.25x19 exhaust b.jpg
2.25x19 exhaust d.jpg

SteveC
 
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Dr.Jeff said:
As for the "aftermarket tubular header" vs "factory cast iron manifold" question. This was also discussed extensively in the past. It might come down to your goals: If it is a 'street' only car with mild mods then the cast iron manifold should be quieter, seal better, and last longer without issues. But if it is a 'track' car with extensive mods then a tube header should offer a bit more performance, with the trade offs just mentioned. The particular design of the tube header will make a difference in how it performs (torque vs HP). The overall cost of either option isn't that much different, and either will likely require some level of modification/fabrication to install.
Click to expand...
One thing to consider when choosing which exhaust to use is weight. Anything you can do to reduce rear weight, especially weight that hangs so far behind the rear wheels, is good. I can't say which weighs more, a cast iron manifold and muffler, or a header and muffler, but the lighter choice is better for handling.
One other thing to consider with the Tipo manifold is the down pipe. I suppose a Tipo down pipe might be modified to work with the X, but I doubt that any of the X specific mufflers would work without significant modification.
One obvious difference between the early X manifold and the Tipo manifold is the mounting of the heat shield. I wonder if the late X heat shield would fit the Tipo manifold?
 
Just attaching my latest manifold spreadsheet. Please note there are many different throat sizes as mentioned above and at least 3 different locations for the outlets. Only one location works with the euro muffler and a different for the 74 set up. Manifolds 20190318.PNG
 
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