Strut mounts wanted

Bearing doesn't give you any benefits, as the strut and the mount do not (should not) rotate in relation to one another, the shock's body and spring rotate on turn relative to strut and mount.

That bearing wouldn’t offer much benefit but the thrust washer or better yet the bearing FiatPlus offers is important to keep spring wind up out of the picture. The strut does rotate relative to the shaft and the mount, keeping the spring top’s ability to freely rotate with the strut (in the front) is critical to easy steering.
 
kmead,
this is correct for most cars, front heavy ones. After trying, for the X1/9 I prefer thrust washer (well greased and clean) vs thrust bearing. Also FiatPlus offer bearing for the price of 50 bearings if you get them from bearing supplier. Anyway, both work fine and that's not the problem I am trying to solve for all X owners, but to find cheap and available mount replacement. So far Focus mounts from NAPA are $26 each, bottom void filament could be $1.50 if stack of washers are used, or whatever the machine job cost would be to make aluminium spacers (similar to the original ones)
 
Sorry not meaning to be critical, I do appreciate your efforts, didn’t mean it to come across that way.

Can you show the modified arrangement? The landing area doesn’t appear to offer a place for the two 90° holes an X needs versus the 120° holes or am I missing something? Or are you saying just drill the tower of the car to accept the 120 arrangement versus the OE 90? Rereading your post, that is what you suggest. Thanks

My wife (92lbs) has gotten used to her Miata power steering so she complains about the wieght of the X’s steering. Though admittedly my 85 has pretty much failed mounts and poor geometry as a result so that may be contributing to its weight. Using the thrust bearings will likely be a desirable feature for me (also as an FYI I believe Mr Obert pays a royalty to Mark Plaia’s widow so there is some justification for the mark up)

Thanks
 
No worries of being critical, that's much better than being empty phrase wrong-understanding-politeness all agreeing nobody. To be critical means you have opinion, knowledge and willing to share them for the sake of achieving better results. Now seriously, I will try to find thrust bearing solution that works with Focus mounts. But as I said, bearing or washer, if in good order, both work fine. X's low speed heavier steering feel is due to the fixed 7 degrees castor and there is nothing you can do about it, unless you fit power steering.
 
Thanks Jovani for the update. Please take a couple additional pictures of the filled-in underside and how things were assembled. I think it will benefit those who wish to do this but haven't attempted such modifications before.

Regarding the bearing. You are correct, it isn't necessary to replace the stock Fiat "fibe washer" with a ball bearing of any type. That would be a personal preference if someone prefers a lighter steering feel. If that was the case, I see no reason why the Ford bearing could not be used. All that is needed is to make sure there is some type of connection between the strut's main shaft (center rod) and the bottom of the Ford bearing. The 'aluminum cone' the top of the rod will do that; it rides on one side of the bearing and the other side of the bearing rests in the cup under the top mount, and no fiber washer is used. In this case the added spacer (or stack of washers) should not be required (the bearing takes up the space). That is how it is done on most imports with MacPherson struts. It allows the center shaft to rotate with the rest of the strut/spring assembly, and pivot at the top mount rather than just below it. This will have the same effect as either the stock washer or the flat thrust needle bearing (Plaia). But it should work the same either way. The rears do not need to pivot nearly as much and should work fine with no bearing (as with the stock X design). Although having a bearing of any type on the rears will allow the coil springs to wind up as Karl described.

Looking online I saw the Focus mounts for about $15 each. This should make an excellent option for the top mounts if desired. Understandable that not everyone will be interested.
Excellent job Jovani, thanks.

EDIT: Please see the next post (below) regarding the "bearing". The description given above might be incorrect. Sorry for any confusion.
 
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I was just looking a little more online about the Focus top mount. In my earlier post the other day, I wondered about the images I was finding and the descriptions of the "bearing".
In this pic it showed the "bearing" as fitting into the center cup from below (the mount is upside down here):
s-l1600.jpg
But in this pic it shows the "bearing" as a large ring that fits around the perimeter:
Fits-Ford-Focus-MK1-16-16V-ACP-Front.jpg

Looking at more online info it seems the first pic (top one above) actually isn't a Focus mount. Look at the details of it compared to the other images, its a different mount. So that pic must have been mislabeled.

Thinking the bearing was like the one in that first pic, I just described how it could work with the X1/9 application. However if the Focus bearing is actually like in the second pic, then it will not work that way. I believe the large ring we see in the second pic is a bearing that rides between the spring and the mount's outer diameter. It's a completely different design and will not work with the X.

Here is another pic of the Focus bearing:
71V8+72m0jL._SX569_.jpg

Compared to the type I initially thought it was:
images.jpg

So ignore what I said about using the Focus bearing, and go with what Jovani and Karl said.
Wish I knew what the mount in the first picture actually fit, it could be another good possibility.
 
Jeff, The second photo is 2001-2007 Focus mount and my choice, Can;t use the bearing (3th photo) just because it is too large as OD, otherwise it would be "plug&play" deal. But I made the necessary parts and in a few days will let everybody know how it looks like and what the cost is. All I can say for now is it works awesome. No more shock mount problems for all Xs :) Jeff, see your messages.
 
Guys, I have no time for details now, you'll get it all this weekend, but the photos below explain it all. The aluminium filler piece is the only thing we need (front only, rears don't need anything) to convert to new, rotatable, available and cheap shock mounts. Plus 2 new holes on each tower obviously. Original thrust washer, rubber seal and the large thin steel washer remain, trashed are the mounts and the aluminium "hat" (similar to my new piece) .20180822_214048.jpg 20180822_214130.jpg
 
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Nicely done Jovani. When you have time please post the dimensions and details so others can make the fillers if desired. Thank you.
 
Nicely done Jovani. When you have time please post the dimensions and details so others can make the fillers if desired. Thank you.
Let me assemble everything on Saturday to confirm that it functions ok and no additional work is required, then I'll post details. BTW I made 2 extra pieces, will probably offer them in FS&W forum.
 
The aluminium filler piece is the only thing we need (front only, rears don't need anything)
Jovani, this statement about the rears not needing a 'filler'. On the rears, are you going to use the stock bump-stop/dust-boot assembly? It has a steel 'cone' on the top that rides into the rubber portion of the stock mount's lower side. Does that steel cone fit into the Focus mount (where you are putting your aluminum 'filler' on the fronts)?

I ask because the steel cone on top of the rears is the exact same shape as the stock aluminum cone on the fronts. So if the rears fit the Focus mounts, then the fronts should to.

Looking forward to hearing more input after you have time to assemble things. Thanks.
 
Jovani, this statement about the rears not needing a 'filler'. On the rears, are you going to use the stock bump-stop/dust-boot assembly? It has a steel 'cone' on the top that rides into the rubber portion of the stock mount's lower side. Does that steel cone fit into the Focus mount (where you are putting your aluminum 'filler' on the fronts)?

I ask because the steel cone on top of the rears is the exact same shape as the stock aluminum cone on the fronts. So if the rears fit the Focus mounts, then the fronts should to.

Looking forward to hearing more input after you have time to assemble things. Thanks.
In short - yes, the "hat" fits the Focus bottom void. But the original brim of the hat is too thick (tall) for what we do. Using it raises the mount assembly by 8mm. Not much, but wrong way to go on originally front taller car. And it is more difficult to set it on a lathe for reshaping than to make new one. Here is the catch, I got the only Focus mount in stock from local NAPA and made a pair of hats. When they called me for the other three mounts, what a surprise - different manufacturing ad different shape of the bottom void. Same depth and diameter, but the curved part was sharper (smaller radius). So I had to rework my parts and that's how I know it's times quicker to make new ones.Anyway, the rear is different story in a good, I hope, way, The worst case is if the deepest (flat) surface of the void and the top flat surface of the rear "hat" don't touch, then a shim with 12mm ID is needed, cost 15 cents, thickness up to 2mm. BUT it all depends on the mount manufacturer, my first one with larger curve radius took the hat all the way in. So will see tomorrow. The bad news is that (BTW as I expected) the steering feel is not improved over the original with new tight mounts. The reason is that the sandwiched rubber "gives" slightly when you only wiggle the steering wheel before thrust washer begins to rotate. Wheels respond fine of course, but the feel is "gummy". This is not noticeable in motion though. But it is a room for improvement, so I will go with roller bearings and yet will keep same assembly height if not shaving down a few more millimeters. It's all designed, need to order bearings, $4 each and machine centering shims for them. Here are todays pics. Camber for first time is dead on :)20180824_185057.jpg 20180824_185203.jpg 20180824_185218.jpg 20180824_205855.jpg 20180824_205919.jpg
 
Thanks Jovani, great report.
I guess I'm not too surprised that different Focus mounts have a different shape cup; sort of typical of replacement parts these days. And as you say, that makes it more difficult to offer some ready-made "fillers" for others to use...unless they are offered together as a kit (filler piece and mount as an assembly). Looking around a little I've also noticed there does not seem to be a huge supply of these mounts readily available. They can be found easily online, but in my area a lot of the parts houses do not keep them in stock so they have to be ordered. Either way it means you won't know exactly what you are getting until they arrive (for example the differences in cup shape you found, or maybe the overall quality level).

I get what you are saying about the rears vs the fronts. It might depend on someone's goals, but in general the front is way to high already so going even taller is in the wrong direction.

Regarding the steering response. That is one of the main benefits to using actual bearings in place of the stock plastic "slider" washer. Beyond the lighter steering effort, it makes it more responsive to inputs. So worth a try to add thrust bearings and see how it feels. Here is a suggestion for that. When you turn the aluminum 'filler' pieces, make them with a upper bearing race included in the design to help center the bearing and protect it from the elements. Here is an example of what I mean. These images are for the stock strut to add bearings, but imagine the grove for the bearing race (first pic) cut into the bottom of the 'hat' (second pic):

4369881 - Copy.JPG
s-l1600 (4) - Copy.jpg


Naturally the top of the hat will be shaped like you have done to fit the Focus mount's cup. Maybe this idea is already what you are thinking?

Otherwise, the only way to get a completely firm steering feel is to use solid mounts (top of strut and suspension arm pivots). But that makes for a harsh and noisy ride. So some compromise must be met.

Thanks
 
20180825_184734.jpg 20180824_205919.jpg All installed, fresh mounts with symmetric pattern (rotatable if start to settle off-center, means they may outlast the car) , cheaper than the originals, will be available for at least another decade and I am happy. Old hardware is for the test only, the three washers will be replaced with one ring which will hide the old 2 holes. Next idea is to put the e-brake on the front wheels without cable movement restriction. Some cars have it.
 
On those last Focus mounts you said the bottom cup was the same depth and diameter as the first one. So aside from the different contour, what is the diameter and depth of that bottom void?
Same as the top, they are identical. I remember the diameter, 1.220", but never wrote down the depth. However, this is not important, the problem was that my second order of mounts had shaper curve on the sandwiched washers (transition from flat to cylinder) thus the bottom "hat" wouldn't go all the way in to touch the end of the void. They must touch so you can tighten the whole assembly. Same on top regarding the non-turn :hat" . So shims with specific OD. ID and thickness must be added. (about 1.200" each). The problem is that the strut's thread is just not long enough with all added ****, nylon of nylon lock nut is barely catching. The other obvious side effect is that the rear assembly is taller than the original anyway and with added shims it becomes just over 1/2" taller. I personally don't mind, because my car front was visibly higher, now it is perfectly leveled. And boy, what a nice and firm ride!!! The wobbly steering feel was due to missing passenger side rack centering bushing. Got awesome solution, but will describe later.
 
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