X1/9, Future Classic or a Classic Already?

What happened to the GTV-6 and the original GTV is no surprise
Yes, it was always foreseen that the GTV6 was destined to be a future classic, even Jeremy Clarkson from Top Gear even went as far as saying so, but the trick is guessing which cars will be classics and at what point. For me value isn't the driving force, for me it's actually liking the car, the design, the engine, the handling, and just being that little bit different, hence the Fiat X1/9 and the GTV6, but also not being a person of means, affordable. So the trick was trying to find the most affordable 'classics' on a budget that met my criteria of design, heritage, handling and driver engagement, and makes me feel good. When I brought the GTV6 in the late 90's it would have been about 12 years old, and a low milage (60,000km) in straight original condition, but not seen as collectible, so only commanded a price tag of US$5,000. Today we are now seeing good GTV6's go for close to US$30,000 and the 70's GTV's (1750 & 2000) are fetching up to US$80,000.
This is why I still see the X1/9 as the best bang for your buck to pick up an iconic, Italian Sports car penned by one of the great style houses, that is fun to drive, easy to maintain. Whether this will remain the case in the future, who knows? Sounds like the US market is safe in keeping the X1/9 affordable, but European and Australasian markets are starting to creep up, but only for very good original examples.
 
*What is a "Classic" ???
Great write up and as for "Bertone finally appealed to Giovanni Agnelli" , Giovanni himself took to the little X as his daily driver for a while back in the day, terrorising motorists and pedestrians alike with his manic driving.
 
then we still have 24,000 X's in existance (far too many to ever be significantly valuable),
But the question is, how many are original and in good condition. As with any Classic, originality is key, just look at how important is it for American Muscle cars to have matching numbers, original body and engine, matching numbers can be the difference between $20,000 and $100,000. The curse of the little X1/9 it begged for owners to meddle with it, it cried out for more power and you only need to follow the threads on this forum as to how many are doing engine swaps or turbo charging, changing wheels, tyres, seats, body work, ripping off bumpers, the list goes on. Even the replacement of the expansion tank with stainless alternatives, whilst an improvement, decreases authenticity. Even I am guilty of colour coding my wing mirrors as I personally think it makes the my version of the X look that little bit different. But I still have a set of the originals in reserve in the very unlikely event that I need to sell my X, as I know I will never be able to find a better one again.
 
I realize I just can't bear to do this Socially transmitted media rabbit hole stuff!
Shame, as I think the purpose of the original question has been lost, as it wasn't "Is the X1/9 going to appreciate in value and become a collectible that you will be able to sell in future and buy a Holiday Home" it was whether the X1/9 is a classic, in the sense it will be remembered in motoring history, irrespective of value.

To quote Bernice Loui

Given this historical significance of the X1/9, it is an under-recognized and underappreciated classic sports car that has influenced sports car design to this day.
 
Needle that has been in a haystack is rare, collectable?

Again, value of any material item is directly tied to how much any individual is willing to give for it's title-ownership no more, no less.

Again, value of any material item is perceived. Creation (creation of fantasy often based on deception) of desirability drives market value. This is just one of many elements of marketing and human psychology based on decades of Academic studies and Human history. This knowledge based is used to create perceived value by marketing folks.


Bernice

Marketing is an interesting (and sometimes evil) science. I always found Terry O'Reilly's radio shows interesting.

https://www.cbc.ca/radio/undertheinfluence

I think it is important to understand the science??? to prevent one from becoming a victim of it.

Brian
 
But the question is, how many are original and in good condition. As with any Classic, originality is key, just look at how important is it for American Muscle cars to have matching numbers, original body and engine, matching numbers can be the difference between $20,000 and $100,000. The curse of the little X1/9 it begged for owners to meddle with it, it cried out for more power and you only need to follow the threads on this forum as to how many are doing engine swaps or turbo charging, changing wheels, tyres, seats, body work, ripping off bumpers, the list goes on. Even the replacement of the expansion tank with stainless alternatives, whilst an improvement, decreases authenticity. Even I am guilty of colour coding my wing mirrors as I personally think it makes the my version of the X look that little bit different. But I still have a set of the originals in reserve in the very unlikely event that I need to sell my X, as I know I will never be able to find a better one again.

Yes, I agree with this. Deviating from the original spec. of any classic will lessen the appeal for the purists and hurt the resale value.
 
But the question is, how many are original and in good condition.

I think it's more than we might think. The vast majority of the bad ones are gone (130,000+). We're getting to the point where the ones that have survived this long have done so because they are in good (or good enough) condition. There's a threshold where the number of rust bucket cars in existence minimizes because they've all rusted away in the hands of careless owners and those careless owners have moved on to newer cars. The examples that remain are in the hands of people who have cared about them enough to keep them in good shape and will continue to do so.

I'm wouldn't be surprised if there's several thousand rust buckets out there, but I don't think there are more rust buckets out there than good cars.

. . . You also have to consider if someone has a rust bucket, they'll probably be more likely to post it up for sale rather than just junk it; their rationale being because it's a relatively unique car, it therefore must be worth more than scrap. And those with good examples don't have much incentive to sell their cars because they're not worth much (at the moment). Which means you get an over representation of junk cars in the market and an unrepresentative of good cars in the market.

What really made me consider all this was after being quite involved with this forum for the past year and also paying attention to X listings on the web, there were dozens and dozens of cars listed in good to excellent condition that had no affiliation with this forum. In fact, I purchased my current X in near mint condition from someone who had no idea the forum existed. There's a lot more cars out there than we are aware of in our current sphere.
 
but I don't think there are more rust buckets out there than good cars.
The key point is 'original', as that ultimately defines how collectible the car will be in the future. They are all loved cars on this forum, but many are far from original, and that is key, you change the engine, gear box, seats, body work, colour, remove the bumpers, even change the gear stick (as the poor Beer Tap shifter is unfairly maligned....IMO), it is instantly less collectible. I must admit enjoying 'American Pickers', and the number of times they come across an old classic, even their obsession with Split Window Bugs, the first question is 'Is it the original engine?', followed with checking the authenticity of the interior and trim.
But by no way am I suggesting everyone must keep their X original, as it's all down to an individuals motivation of ownership, and some of the reno's on X's is inspiring, to the point of being tempted to up the hp in mine, but the path I've chosen is Classic.
 
I read on this post that the market is saturated with X1/9's, really? I live in the Bay Area an area of what 7 million people all with at least one vehicle and I have only seen one X driving on the road in the last 5 years!

My reasons for restoring an X: Pre "smog" early '70's, mid engine with excellent handling, Italian industrial design and last - a major reason for me - is that it's a classic car that is never seen on the road anymore! They either bring back memories of HS or college for many or like mentioned previously people are mesmerized and want to know all about them.

The Mini is a classic and there were over 5 million of them made. Their reliability and rustability is way worse than the X.

Sure the X will be collectable, I say it already is, how many on this forum have more than one? Will the X be valuable like a GTV, 911/914, 510/Z or 2002? I don't think so but no one buys into the X world as an investment.

The X is a classic sports car on the down low!
 
For some motos, original is best in many ways. Some examples would be Citroen DS, SM, Lotus Carlton, Saab 900SPG, 9000Aero, Ferrari F40, McLaren F1, Jaguar XJ220, Lancia Lambda, etc... These are well developed designs with significant merit-innovation and does not need further intervention by it's owner-driver. Best to keep these as original as possible for a long list of very rational-logical reasons.

Others like the X1/9, Lancia MonteCarlo are designs that went into production incomplete in various ways. There is much in these designs that have not been properly utilized to their fullest potential. These motos can be greatly improved by folks who have the design-engineering qualifications, resources required, and passion to get it done. There are examples of how the X can be greatly improved by folks on Xweb. Difficulty with any modification from Original, the modifications done by owners-drivers are more often than not is hideous-horrific-horendious-hokey-hazardious. This is one of the prime reasons why modified motos are far less desirable and acquired a load of owner created problems. On the flip side, get a modified car from a owner-driver that is more than qualified to get it done properly, the results can be brilliant in many, many ways. This is the story of Abarth, Alpine, AMG, Gordini and a long list of folks who were excelled at getting the very best from a design with under utilized potential.


Bernice
 
I don't know why you guys want Xs to be upward mobile collector cars. Just means the hipsters will shell out money at stupid rates for these cars, taking them out of the hands of hobbyists like me and this forum will be more about which wrist watches best match the car and hot mods will be about installing 10" info screens on the dash. I'd go back to motorcycles but every turkey bike form the 70s are now considered hot bikes to convert to café racers and bobbers....really, the CB350 was never a cult bike until recently, our RD350s would just destroy them and I never saw one on the grid of the production races I ran in. Wow, that's what happens when I drink two cups of coffee instead of one......bbbzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz
 
I don't know why you guys want Xs to be upward mobile collector cars. Just means the hipsters will shell out money at stupid rates for these cars, taking them out of the hands of hobbyists like me and this forum will be more about which wrist watches best match the car and hot mods will be about installing 10" info screens on the dash.

While I definitely wouldn't mind waking up tomorrow to find my X is worth 6 figures, it would definitely be bittersweet.
 
Since I am one of the owners that are changing my X to decidedly non-stock, I personally am glad that they maintain a low-cost low-profile, and that the collectors have not yet figured out that these wonderful toys are disappearing, and will soon be rare. As long as I can still buy one for silly cheap money, I don't feel as bad about modifying one.

In watching the auto restoration and rebuild shows on TV, I find it almost unbelievable that someone would pay 5 figures for a rusty shell of a Nova in a junk yard, sans motor and transmission. when I could get a decent condition driveable X for 5k.

I have not seen an X go across the blocks at Mecum or Barrett. Have they? It would be interesting to see. Like many of us, I don't imagine selling my X in the near future. The fact that it is somehow less valuable due to modifications therefore doesn't affect me. On the other hand, if I restored it back to fresh from the factory pristine condition, I'd be so worried about it losing value that I'd likely never enjoy driving it.
 
I don't know why you guys want Xs to be upward mobile collector cars.
I for one, and I can imagine everyone on this forum, are not into X ownership for the money, although one real advantage of the X appreciating in value is that it secures its future. When something has no value it is easily cast aside when it doesn't work anymore, or is no longer fit for purpose, so is either scrapped or passed on to someone who has no real interest in it, other than being 'hipster' as Carl says, and will thrash it into the ground.
Once something starts to have tangible value then there is an incentive to look after it and save it, which is fortunately where the X is heading. No, it's not going to be a 6 figure collectible, but is going to have sufficient value and collectibility to not be discarded.
 
if I restored it back to fresh from the factory pristine condition, I'd be so worried about it losing value that I'd likely never enjoy driving it.
Which is why in many cases the best restoration is someone elses! There are many enthusiasts out there that enjoy the process of the restoration itself, as that is their hobby, and once restored they are looking for the next project and happily sell their resto for less than they invested, and the quality of their restoration is usually outstanding. I still kick myself today for not buying such a restoration project of a 1974 GTV which was immaculate, over $30,000 had been spent on the restoration and the sale price, $14,000, as it wasn't about the money.
 
Latest post on 'What I did today...'
What did you do to your X1/9 today ?

is proof that the little X is a classic, as there are more and more posts just like this, projects bringing neglected X's back to life rather than heading for the scrap yard. Yes, the little X is becoming collectible in the eyes of a growing number of enthusiasts who desire a car of relevance, italian design flair, and delivers the driving experience to back up the looks. And the best thing about X ownership, it's two things, the joy of driving, and secondly, the simplicity of an bygone era where anyone can work on one.
 
No doubt the X is a classic, but few will achieve classic status. Most of us (us being world-wide X owners) have seen the value of these cars in the way we can tailor them to suit our driving needs. From the factory, these cars were under powered, under tired, and too quiet. We have seen these cars as the base for creating our own little Italian sports car that Fiat almost got right. This makes most of our cars bastards in the collectable world. Clean original '74 cars are truly rare and may be the ones that get to six figures, but that will not affect most of the enthusiasts that have modded their cars with dual carbs, cams, wheels, coilovers...etc for driving pleasure. This is demonstrated by the 124 spider. A look on ebay will show a resto-mod Assura going for $25K, but a good driver for $6k. This is where the X is heading.
 
If the original exxe was compared to similar motos produced at or before when the exxe was introduced, one will discover the exxe was NOT under powered, it had similar acceleration to it's peers. What makes the exxe feel SO under powered is the excellence of it's chassis behavior.

Fiat never had any intention or interest to develop this Bertone design as it was difficult enough to get this Bertone design into production. If the management at Fiat had their way, this Bertone design would have never seen the production line floor. The management at Fiat wanted a FWD two seater, not a mid-engine two seater based on 128 oily bits. What Fiat did was to suppress any and all potential development of the exxe any way possible. Much like the ScorpiaCarlo, it is a mostly unfinished-under developed design, essentially a modest production Italian kit car with enormous potential that was never properly developed by it's creators.

As for six or seven or what ever number a 74' might be worth market wise, frankly don't give a @$?& as fun to drive, and ownership is what matters. For those who want a place to store their $ with four wheels, there are plenty of other motos that are far safer and better than the exxe for that intent and goal.


Bernice


From the factory, these cars were under powered, under tired, and too quiet. We have seen these cars as the base for creating our own little Italian sports car that Fiat almost got right. This makes most of our cars bastards in the collectable world. Clean original '74 cars are truly rare and may be the ones that get to six figures,
 
If the original exxe was compared to similar motos produced at or before when the exxe was introduced, one will discover the exxe was NOT under powered, it had similar acceleration to it's peers. What makes the exxe feel SO under powered is the excellence of it's chassis behavior.

Fiat never had any intention or interest to develop this Bertone design as it was difficult enough to get this Bertone design into production. If the management at Fiat had their way, this Bertone design would have never seen the production line floor. The management at Fiat wanted a FWD two seater, not a mid-engine two seater based on 128 oily bits. What Fiat did was to suppress any and all potential development of the exxe any way possible. Much like the ScorpiaCarlo, it is a mostly unfinished-under developed design, essentially a modest production Italian kit car with enormous potential that was never properly developed by it's creators.

As for six or seven or what ever number a 74' might be worth market wise, frankly don't give a @$?& as fun to drive, and ownership is what matters. For those who want a place to store their $ with four wheels, there are plenty of other motos that are far safer and better than the exxe for that intent and goal.


Bernice
Well said.
 
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