"Curving" Distributor

tigeravg

True Classic
And the last question of the day...

Anybody use/know of a good shop that can service and curve a distributor? I have a cam mounted unit that apparently goes full advance about 4500-5000 all at once (another likely culpret in my det problems). With no vacuum advance on a pair of DCNF's, Matt suggested having the dizzy recurved to a much lower rpm.
 
I recurved my stock 74 distributor many years ago to replicate a curve that Joe Serra had spent some time optimizing. It has no vacuum advance and the following centrifugal advance curve:

RPM DEGREES
0 20
1200 20
1400 21
1500 22
1600 23
1800 24
2200 25
2600 26
2900 27
3300 28
3600 29
3800 30
8000 30

I replaced one spring with a much weaker one that provided full advance by 3800 rpm. I replaced the other spring with a very stiff spring with a bit of slack. That one essentially limits the advance to 10 degrees once the slack is taken up.

I am using it with dual DCNFs. Worked well with several different cams.

I checked it recently with a timing light that can measure advance easily. If I had one of those about 40 years ago when I did the recurve, it would have saved me quite a bit of time.
 
It may be a little hard to find a shop with a distributor machine anymore. They have gone out of fashion as vehicles seldom have that type of advance mechanisms now. But there should be a old shop with a old operator that has the machine and knows how to use it somewhere. Another possible issue will be if they have the appropriate adapter to mount your cam driven dizzy on the machine. I've seen advertisements for that service in some of the vintage car magazines. So you could ship the dizzy to them, but there service is rather expensive in my opinion.

SunMachine.jpg
 
It may be a little hard to find a shop with a distributor machine anymore. They have gone out of fashion as vehicles seldom have that type of advance mechanisms now. But there should be a old shop with a old operator that has the machine and knows how to use it somewhere. Another possible issue will be if they have the appropriate adapter to mount your cam driven dizzy on the machine. I've seen advertisements for that service in some of the vintage car magazines. So you could ship the dizzy to them, but there service is rather expensive in my opinion.

View attachment 22944
They have a similar Sun unit on eBay for $800. The chuck looks like it should accommodate a Fiat distributor splined shaft.
 
Don't we have to know what the ideal curve is? I know with the spiders, Guy Croft pretty much indicates as long as full advance is in at something like 3500 then he does not care about the actual curve but then his book is focused on racing.
 
The ideal curve may depend on what your "ideals" are but something like 30-32 degrees advance by ~3500 rpm is pretty common. I think that the FI distributors are similar to this. When I did mine, I was more concerned with how 20 degrees at idle was going to work out, but it turned out not to be an issue the stock compression ratio.
 
I agree, for a street engine there should be a curve of increasing timing - not all at once like on a race engine that remains full throttle or closed throttle. That curve would have an "ideal" based on the particular criteria. Don's earlier post (#2 in this thread) shows a curve, numerically. I don't know if this is the ideal one or not, but seems like a fairly basic linear one that would be a good start. I imagine you would need to do a bunch of dyno testing to determine the ideal curve for any given engine set-up.
 
It may be a little hard to find a shop with a distributor machine anymore. They have gone out of fashion as vehicles seldom have that type of advance mechanisms now. But there should be a old shop with a old operator that has the machine and knows how to use it somewhere. Another possible issue will be if they have the appropriate adapter to mount your cam driven dizzy on the machine. I've seen advertisements for that service in some of the vintage car magazines. So you could ship the dizzy to them, but there service is rather expensive in my opinion.

View attachment 22944
I have this unit. The one pictured above is missing the vacuum column. And yes, the Fiat dist. fits just fine.
 
The one pictured above
That picture was just a picture that I copied from the web, and I really did not look too close at it. But it reminded me of when those were fairly common at service shops. That was back when distributors were rebuilt/repaired rather than replaced. Mike, I assume you have used your's to recurve distributors?
 
That picture was just a picture that I copied from the web, and I really did not look too close at it. But it reminded me of when those were fairly common at service shops. That was back when distributors were rebuilt/repaired rather than replaced. Mike, I assume you have used your's to recurve distributors?
Yes, I have, but never on a Fiat dist. I have used it to check that the advance mechanism was working correctly on Fiat dist.
I use an electronically controlled advance curve on my racecar, on my other cars I use the unmodified factory mechanical curves - some without vacuum advance.
 
Hi, new to the forum, sold my first x1/9 in 1983 and just got a bone stock 28000 mile 1980 carbureted X1/9 last month. I've been reading alot here and using the info, and in this case can contribute something, I hope.
So this isn't Fiat specific, but I built a few hundred distributors for 4 cylinder Datsun Roadsters over the years. On a non-emmission engine, speaking in crankshaft degrees, starting the advance at 900rpm and ending up with 32 to 34 degrees total advance at 3500 rpm was found to be the best all around, from bone stock 96hp pushrod 1.6 with SU's to big cam and big Solex sidedrafts on an OHC 2.0 making about 165hp. Vacuum advance distributors started at 16 deg base timing and 17 of mechanical advance, non vac advance up to 20 degrees initial and 15 degrees advance. As long as the advance is smooth and starts and stops in the right place, the middle area, 1500-2500rpm is not too sensitive. You can do 90% of the job with a good digital advance timing light with tach. Once you know how many degrees and beginning and ending RPM, you're ready to set your timing, or get it recurved So total timing (32-34) minus advance = initial timing.
Get the idle as low as possible and set/check initial timing. You can also set it the "safe" way. Bring the engine up above full advance rpm, say 4200rpm, set timing to 32-34 degrees using the advance timing light and tighten the distributor. Let it back to idle, and you're set. Either way you set it, check it doesn't exceed 35 degrees at full advance, a few degrees less gives some room for crappy gas.
And now you have a really cool timing light everyone will want to borrow.
Hope this helps
 
Hi, new to the forum, sold my first x1/9 in 1983 and just got a bone stock 28000 mile 1980 carbureted X1/9 last month. I've been reading alot here and using the info, and in this case can contribute something, I hope.
So this isn't Fiat specific, but I built a few hundred distributors for 4 cylinder Datsun Roadsters over the years. On a non-emmission engine, speaking in crankshaft degrees, starting the advance at 900rpm and ending up with 32 to 34 degrees total advance at 3500 rpm was found to be the best all around, from bone stock 96hp pushrod 1.6 with SU's to big cam and big Solex sidedrafts on an OHC 2.0 making about 165hp. Vacuum advance distributors started at 16 deg base timing and 17 of mechanical advance, non vac advance up to 20 degrees initial and 15 degrees advance. As long as the advance is smooth and starts and stops in the right place, the middle area, 1500-2500rpm is not too sensitive. You can do 90% of the job with a good digital advance timing light with tach. Once you know how many degrees and beginning and ending RPM, you're ready to set your timing, or get it recurved So total timing (32-34) minus advance = initial timing.
Get the idle as low as possible and set/check initial timing. You can also set it the "safe" way. Bring the engine up above full advance rpm, say 4200rpm, set timing to 32-34 degrees using the advance timing light and tighten the distributor. Let it back to idle, and you're set. Either way you set it, check it doesn't exceed 35 degrees at full advance, a few degrees less gives some room for crappy gas.
And now you have a really cool timing light everyone will want to borrow.
Hope this helps
That is pretty close to the curve I put on my stock 74 distributor after removing the vacuum retard mechanism. Works great.

Also, welcome to the forum!
 
Nice. Hell, you can't even get a stock rebuild for that price...great deal. Worth sending the unit to him for recurving just to get it restored.
 
Perhaps once I get my car going and experienced enough with it to better understand the desired curve, I too will ship mine out for rebuild and curve.
 
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