Snorkel for intercooler?
- Thread starter Janis
- Start date
carl
True Classic
I can take any measurements you want from my FAZA snorkel but first off the base of the snorkel is centered and would be right over where your intake plenum is so would not be on top of the intercooler. The snorkel has a flat base and you could mount it over the intercooler if you didn't mind it being offset to the car. I'll take some pics later.
Janis
True Classic
I would be happy for measurments.
Also I want to put it offset, behind driver and it is exactly where is intercooler.
You can also make pictures from side, front and top with ruller behind, if Your ruller have cm it would be great
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Janis, that is a good size intercooler - much better than the stock Uno Turbo unit.
But one possible drawback to using a snorkel for this application is it only offers additional airflow when the car is moving above a certain speed (maybe around 65 kph). Below that speed or at rest (stopped) there would be very little air flow across the intercooler. In fact having the solid structure (snorkel) above the intercooler (rather than a open grill) could actually block the air movement when the car is stopped or moving slowly.
The intercooler needs the most air flow when the engine is under boost, so that really isn't a major problem - because for the most part the boost comes on after the car is moving. However the heat can build up ("heat sink") in/around the intercooler and the rest of the turbo system, so having better air flow at all times will help prevent possible issues with engine detonation (death of a turbo engine). Especially in these tight engine bays with very little air circulation and lots of heat.
Maybe adding a electric cooling fan (like a small radiator fan) above or below the intercooler might be a good idea. Think of most turbo cars with the engine in the front; the intercooler is mounted at the grill, with lots of open air around it, and the radiator's fan is pulling air across the intercooler as well as the radiator. If you added a fan then the snorkel may not be needed, or it could still be added if desired.
But one possible drawback to using a snorkel for this application is it only offers additional airflow when the car is moving above a certain speed (maybe around 65 kph). Below that speed or at rest (stopped) there would be very little air flow across the intercooler. In fact having the solid structure (snorkel) above the intercooler (rather than a open grill) could actually block the air movement when the car is stopped or moving slowly.
The intercooler needs the most air flow when the engine is under boost, so that really isn't a major problem - because for the most part the boost comes on after the car is moving. However the heat can build up ("heat sink") in/around the intercooler and the rest of the turbo system, so having better air flow at all times will help prevent possible issues with engine detonation (death of a turbo engine). Especially in these tight engine bays with very little air circulation and lots of heat.
Maybe adding a electric cooling fan (like a small radiator fan) above or below the intercooler might be a good idea. Think of most turbo cars with the engine in the front; the intercooler is mounted at the grill, with lots of open air around it, and the radiator's fan is pulling air across the intercooler as well as the radiator. If you added a fan then the snorkel may not be needed, or it could still be added if desired.
Bjorn Nilson
True Classic
In my opinion a snorkel would work against the natural airflow from below and side vents. A better way would be to redirect the air stream upwards from the left side vent and add a sucking fan on top of the IC.
Most mid-engine cars have a water IC which is much more efficient. It is a more complex and costly solution but I am sure it is worth it. Personally I also think a snorkel is uggly so I will go for a Water to Air IC on my UT build for these reasons.
MikeHynes
True Classic
Yes, on the X the low pressure air is above the engine cover. The natural flow of air is from beneath the car up past the engine, out through the engine cover. To get that air to flow from a snorkel, through the intercooler, you would have to exhaust the air out of the intercooler out the back of the car - or someplace with lower pressure air. Maybe if you placed the snorkel under the car and sealed it up to the bottom of the intercooler it would be more effective. (not kidding)
DanielForest
True Classic
The abarth snorkel and the Faza version are IMHO a fashion statement (no matter if you like them or not) and their strong points is they are period correct. In term of efficiency, they aren't probably very good, unless a lot of care would be taken to make ducting directing air to the objects (intercooler or carbs).
I also agree, fresh air is coming more from the underside of the car and the side vent than from the top in this place.
I also agree, fresh air is coming more from the underside of the car and the side vent than from the top in this place.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Not scientific but just intuitive thought; I imagine the "ram effect" of a 'scoop' (snorkel) would overcome the mild pressure differences (gradient) between above and below the engine bay, provided the vehicle's speed is sufficient to induce a ram of air through it. Not that it matters but my guess is that was it's intended design initially; for track use when the car is constantly moving at fairly high speeds, to "force" (ram) cool air into the engine's intake area.
But that really wasn't my earlier point. My thoughts were more about a lack of air flow at slow speeds or standing still, with heat soak building up in/around the IC. The same is true for the pressure gradient (above vs below pressures) without a snorkel...there is essentially zero air movement when you are not moving enough. So with or without a snorkel, I think a fan is best. It will move air (in either direction, based on the direction of the fan) across the IC when the car isn't moving fast enough for 'natural' air flow. And it will enhance the air flow (up or down, with or without snorkel, depending on the setup) when moving...most fans should provide more CFM than any 'natural' movement/flow.
But that really wasn't my earlier point. My thoughts were more about a lack of air flow at slow speeds or standing still, with heat soak building up in/around the IC. The same is true for the pressure gradient (above vs below pressures) without a snorkel...there is essentially zero air movement when you are not moving enough. So with or without a snorkel, I think a fan is best. It will move air (in either direction, based on the direction of the fan) across the IC when the car isn't moving fast enough for 'natural' air flow. And it will enhance the air flow (up or down, with or without snorkel, depending on the setup) when moving...most fans should provide more CFM than any 'natural' movement/flow.
carl
True Classic
Regardless of the theory, here are some pics of my snorkel install.
The snorkel in place.
![IMG_1338[3].JPG](https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_1338-3-jpg.28868/ "IMG_1338[3].JPG")
the opening under the snorkel.
![IMG_1337[2].JPG](https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_1337-2-jpg.28869/ "IMG_1337[2].JPG")
The snorkel moved to be over the intercooler.
![IMG_1341[1].JPG](https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_1341-1-jpg.28870/ "IMG_1341[1].JPG")
The underside of the snorkel "dog house".
![IMG_1340[2].JPG](https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_1340-2-jpg.28871/ "IMG_1340[2].JPG")
A rough drawing showing dimensions (in inches).
![IMG_1342[2].JPG](https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?attachments/img_1342-2-jpg.28872/ "IMG_1342[2].JPG")
The snorkel intake has a very restrictive screen and that would have to be removed for any meaningful air intake. The only way to know if it makes a meaningful difference is the use of a remote thermometer with before and after readings.
The snorkel in place.
the opening under the snorkel.
The snorkel moved to be over the intercooler.
The underside of the snorkel "dog house".
A rough drawing showing dimensions (in inches).
The snorkel intake has a very restrictive screen and that would have to be removed for any meaningful air intake. The only way to know if it makes a meaningful difference is the use of a remote thermometer with before and after readings.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Carl, we're waiting to hear your results on that. And thanks for offering to do it.
But seriously that would be very interesting to find out.
ArtBasement
Erwin Timmers
Seems so counter productive to have the hard-fought airflow from the snorkel be obstructed by the metal tops of the air cleaners. Aren't there air cleaners with mesh tops?
lookforjoe
True Classic
a large fan on top of the engine cover helped keep the bay temps down - pulling the air up & out, not down. Would keep air moving through the IC
Hybridfiat
Power costs money, more power cost more money
I wish I could find pics of my engine bay. I put the intercooler in a similar spot but vertical and sealed against the strut tower. A plate over the top and a fan on the engine side that drew air from the (modified, read open) side intake through the intercooler.
If I havn't blown the motor up before drag racing it I had intended putting a waterspray nozzle on the intake side and a switch inside to cool the intercooler during hard (brief, 400m) acceleration.
If I havn't blown the motor up before drag racing it I had intended putting a waterspray nozzle on the intake side and a switch inside to cool the intercooler during hard (brief, 400m) acceleration.
Attachments
kmead
Old enough to know better
Yes there are, but of questionable filtration quality.
I think it is more about ensuring there is cool air around the carbs rather than specifically forcing it into the intake. I think in general ‘ram’ air is a misnomer unless it is specifically ducted. There are solutions for this but they generally use a remote filter versus this type of filtration.
One could make a plate and sort of plenum to segregate the carbs from the rest of the engine compartment air/temperature but it looks too much like work with little to really show for it.
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myronx19
True Classic
From my book on turbos - I recall it being minimum one third of the frontal surface area of the intercooler. That is for a front mount though. Getting air to an intercooler in a mid-engine car is really difficult.
carl
True Classic
Doc, thanks for volunteering me. Doing this in the winter time seems a waste of time, I'll wait till the late spring or summer when hopefully everyone has forgotten you asked me to do it.
Erwin, my snorkel is purely a style affectation, much like guys who wear massive skin diver watches but the closest they have been to water is taking a shower. It will be even funnier if I put your DCOEs on and the snorkel will blow down on the carb bodies but the air intakes will be in the rear trunk. The engine bay is open in many places so there can't be any pressurized air to the carbs.
If I do put the DCOEs on then I'll have to move the snorkel to the rear trunk, that would be funky.
Erwin, my snorkel is purely a style affectation, much like guys who wear massive skin diver watches but the closest they have been to water is taking a shower. It will be even funnier if I put your DCOEs on and the snorkel will blow down on the carb bodies but the air intakes will be in the rear trunk. The engine bay is open in many places so there can't be any pressurized air to the carbs.
If I do put the DCOEs on then I'll have to move the snorkel to the rear trunk, that would be funky.
DanielForest
True Classic
Hey Carl,
That was MY idea... (and yes, because of the DCOE, but I think I will prefer ducting and air box...so you could do it and I won't sue you for stealing my concept...
That was MY idea... (and yes, because of the DCOE, but I think I will prefer ducting and air box...so you could do it and I won't sue you for stealing my concept...
autox19
True Classic
I am watching this thread carefully. I have been thinking about putting a turbo on the B16, but intercooler location has been one of the things keeping me from doing it. I like the looks of the snorkel, but I think the pulling air up though one and out thought the engine Cover would be the most efficient.
Odie
Odie
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I agree. Perhaps "ram" wasn't the appropriate word. I was referring to the air's velocity or flow as the car moves through it, being redirected from the roof to the engine bay via the snorkel. I think that added movement of air aimed downward by the scoop would overcome any pressure gradient at that point - depending on the vehicle's speed. And my comments are about the air going to the intercooler, not the engine's induction.
The original post was focused on the function of a snorkel for a intercooler. Although I'm not certain it is sufficient (without the aid of a fan), I will say I like the visual aspect of a snorkel. To me it represents a performance design aspect typical of the era. The Abarth X1/9 Prototipo / Stradale had a great look, and this snorkel was a part of that. If one is added along with a fan then I don't think it will hurt, and might even help a little when the car is moving fast enough (which is when the extra cooling effect is needed most). So having one even for the 'look' really shouldn't hurt in that case.