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1600 Engine Build

Discussion in 'Workshop Forum' started by PaulD, Nov 14, 2017.

  1. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Dr. Jeff has been asking for a description of my 1603 engine build, so I guess it is time to do it,

    The intent for this engine was to take advantage of the increased stroke and aim for maximum torque across a broad RPM range. I will use as many pictures as possible.

    Block: 14 bolt, drilled for 12mm head studs, allign bored, bored for 87mm pistons, decked to provide 10.3 to 1 compression ratio (94 octane gas)

    Crank 64.7 mm Tipo 1600.

    87mm Wiseco custom forged pistons, with a dished top (for better squish and flame propagation)

    Crowder rods (these rods are 60 thou shorter than the stock ones)

    Chinese cast fiat Tipo 1600 head. (Steve C. has written extensively on the potential of these heads) Here are some pictures:

    DSC_0102.jpg

    DSC_0098.jpg




    The head is set for a Tipo thermostat housing, and has no heater hose output:

    DSC_0103.jpg

    DSC_0107.jpg

    I made an adapter to remedy both issues:

    DSC_0288.jpg

    Installed:

    DSC_0119.jpg



    79 mm Osvat intake valves and 27.5mm Manley chrome exhaust valves (Toyota 4AG) were used. The exhaust valves were fit with older Volkswagen valve spring retainers.

    Valve springs are Eidelbrock racing.

    I did this before rjplenter's year of remarkable research into light weight valve trains. I would go that route were I to do it now.

    A Schneider cam: 284-F (34-30, 70-74 .395 lift) was used

    The head was ported with a straight cut and blended at the valve side.

    ARP hardware was used throughout.

    I used Honda CRB 600 fi 36mm throttle bodies that I extended to fit the Fiat:

    DSC_0239.jpg

    The intake was made from 35mm ID aluminum tube, and was long, for torque.

    DSC_0353.jpg

    In the above picture you can also see the ceramic coated heat shield between the intake and exhaust.

    The throttle bodies are fed through an air box with custom velocity stacks. The full radius on them is for better flow.

    DSC_0354.jpg

    The air box is huge with a large filter. It is fed by two NACA ducts in the rear fenders.

    DSC_0517.jpg

    Oops, I am at my maximum number of downloads, I will start a part 2

    Paul Davock
     
    mkmini and Oom_Paul like this.
  2. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    I was about to post the NACA ducts in the rear fenders. The ducts must have sharp edges and the right angle of decent to function. There are lots of non-functional imitations out there. I used two three inch ducts. My engine builder thinks they should be larger.

    DSC_0360.jpg

    The long intakes necessitated solid motor mounts; the center of the snail mount is PTFE, and is doing well so far. A LOT of vibration is transferred to the car. I am still working on locking down everything in the passenger compartment. It is noisy right now. Every bolt has locktite or lock nuts. (I like fujilocks);

    DSC_0118.jpg

    DSC_0133.jpg

    DSC_0138 (1).jpg

    Oil cooling is with a large oil filter with a custom duct:

    oil rad duct.jpg

    DSC_0407.jpg

    Engine Management uses an AEM EMS4. All of the original wiring is uncut and in the spare tire well with the EMS. The control panel is where the double relay was.

    DSC_0151.jpg

    DSC_0152.jpg

    The Bosch idle air valve is behind the air box, as are the vacuum lines to the MAP air pressure sensor manifold.

    DSC_0146.jpg

    DSC_0148.jpg

    Out of space again, on to part 3
     
    Paul Valente likes this.
  3. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Part 3

    Baumer Hall Effect sensors are on the 12 point crank trigger wheel, and a 1 point steel trigger on the Piper aluminum adjustable cam pulley:

    DSC_0126.jpg

    DSC_0111.jpg

    Spark is through 4 AEM smart coils, two on each side of the well where the ignition module and coil reside:

    DSC_0120.jpg

    I am using an Allison header. I bent the water pump pipe further from the header, and ceramic coated it. I will add a heat shield if necessary, there is no evidence of boiling so far. You can also see the position of the Bosch Knock sensor.

    DSC_0144.jpg

    I used: 23 Lb./ hour fuel injectors rated at 14 ohms.
    AEM air temp, MAP and O2 wide band sensors
    Subaru WRX water temp. sensor (It fits right in and matches an AEM callibration)
    Lightened flywheel
    Superior Friction Kevlar Clutch
    Aluminum radiator
    Denso gear reduction starter

    The outcome:

    Engine Dino:

    DSC_0427.jpg

    DSC_0454.jpg

    On the engine dino as we started to set the mid range tuning, the engine and dino got into a harmonic, creating a tremendous shaking. It damaged the dino, and was the end of the session.

    To get a final tune, I took the assembled car to Evans tuning, an expert on AEM systems. He has a direct drive dino:

    DSC_0535 (1).jpg

    The clutch was not broken it and slipping under full load, so I am not sure we got the maximum. Here is the outcome of the session:

    DSC_0551.jpg

    My goal was for lots of torque, and I am a very happy man. It requires all of my attention to drive, as it runs through the gears so quickly. It sounds great too.

    At the track it is now very quick, unfortunately, I am not. Work on my driving and suspension is forthcoming.

    Paul Davock
     
    Paul Valente likes this.
  4. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    Paul, certainly a very comprehensive build! And nice coverage in your post. Thank you for sharing.

    I would be interested to learn what you used and how you assembled the trigger wheels/sensors on the crank pulley and cam gear.
     
  5. tonyism7

    tonyism7 Low Mileage

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks for the nice writeup. I'm currently collecting parts for a very similar build. I still need to get pistons. Can you share the specs on yours?

    Can you also explain more about why you needed solid motor mounts with your intake? Is it because your throttle bodies are being supported by the airbox at the other end?

    Thank you
     
    kmead likes this.
  6. Ulix

    Ulix True Classic

    Location:
    Stuttgart, Germany
    WOW!!
    What a project. Great job!
    (Your valve sizes don't sound right though)
     
    mkmini likes this.
  7. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    The crank trigger wheel is from a custom pulley from a person who is no longer in business (Millers Mule). It is a ring that is centered on a machined edge at the back of the crank pulley. and screwed in. I have one on a cast iron pulley that I will take a picture of if you are interested.

    For the aluminum crank pulley I machined one tooth going to a small pin that is press fit and held with locktite on the inside of the wheels. The centrifugal force when it turns is in the direction of the pin, so I am confident it is secure.

    Paul
     
    Last edited: Nov 14, 2017
  8. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Now that I look at them, I suspect that they are not correct. Last night I could not find my information, so I looked up the Toyota AGE stats and used them.

    Paul
     
  9. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Indeed, the transition from the throttle bodies to the air box required them. The other factor is that the movement of the engine and the length of the intakes would require a much larger cut out of the structural bodywork above them.

    The pistons: Bore size: 3.4252
    Compression height: 1.298 (I had to deck the block a bit more with this, I did not take into account the shorter Scat rods)
    Dome rise -.062
    Valve pocket Diameter intake: 1.6550 Exhaust: 1.4540
    Angle: Intake and Exhaust: 18
    Depth from TE Intake: -.1990 Exhaust: -.1790

    I originally bought the cast pistons that Chris Obert sells for this engine, and then decided I wanted the extra strength an lighter weight of forged pistons. I will be putting the cast ones up for sale soon.

    Paul
     
  10. tonyism7

    tonyism7 Low Mileage

    Location:
    New Jersey
    Thanks for the info. I had a similar idea about putting an airbox in the rear trunk. Have you had a chance to drive it much yet? How do the solid motor mounts feel?

    I'll keep an eye out for that listing.
     
  11. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    The combination of the solid mounts and a light weight flywheel requires precision on the clutch. It is possible to feather the clutch for easing forward or backing up, but it takes fine control. In traffic I tend toward more gas than I would otherwise use and a slightly more aggressive start. This is compounded by how rapidly the engine will rev from idle. The kevlar clutch is happy with such starts. All said, accelerating is fantastic fun. First gear is good for about 3 seconds to the shift point.

    The vibration transmitted through the car is apparent through what vibrates in the cabin. As I find stuff and secure it, there is improvement. I also hear the gear noise more. I get no vibration in the mirrors, steering wheel or seat. Right now I would not drive it across the country. Trips of a number of hours each way are not only fine, but are fun. My face gets tired from smiling.

    What I like about the big air box, is that I understand that getting cool air to the intake system is the cheapest horsepower that you can find.

    The car runs well, it is smooth, has a wide power band and no surging. Water temperature, oil pressure, and voltage all are spot on.

    Paul
     
  12. Hi Paul,

    as others have mentioned, you have really executed a precision build there. Congratulations!

    I was just wondering whether using the solid motor mounts is creating more problems than it solves? Couldn't you put something flexible in the (long) intakes that would allow them to absorb the movement of the engine when normal mounts are used? I'm sure that you have thought of all the options though!

    Anyway, thanks for putting together the information (and photos). Certainly an inspiration. I was also interested in seeing that you had used one of the Chinese Tipo heads...

    Dom.
     
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  13. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    It is certainly possible (although perhaps difficult) to put a flex section in the intakes. Likely it would defeat the purpose of intake though. Air flow is an art that I am not well versed in, but it is my understanding that the straighter and less interrupted the manifold, the better the flow. However, people who do lots of flow work say it is often not like you think it would be. So, perhaps it could work.

    When I experimented with the stock mounts using a lever to put a lot of torque on the engine, I found over an inch of motion at the far end of the manifold.

    Perhaps a very stiff but not solid mount?

    Paul
     
  14. Dan Sarandrea (Phila)

    Dan Sarandrea (Phila) Waitin' On Parts...

    Location:
    Philadelphia, PA
    I was thinking the same thing, a la the classic Alfa V6s. Maybe replace the distal section of each intake runner with a good quality silicone hose?
     
  15. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Wow! That could work. Lets all think this out. Something stiff enough to not collapse in vacuum, and still flex. What are the Alfa ones like?

    Paul
     
  16. TonyK

    TonyK True Classic

    Location:
    Grimsby Ont Canada
    Paul you have an impressive build. Any idea of the cost?

    My 79 has a 1500 Fiat engine and the body still has original paint, the engine needs work, so you have me thinking.

    My other car has the Fiat 500 Abarth 1.4 turbo engine in it. The stock Fiat mounts are too old and soft so I recast them with a Shore 80 rubber. What I notice is the engine noise being transmitted into the body of the car and the more direct transfer of power to the wheels. What I am afraid of is, will that vibration cause the attachment point of the body to crack and fail. My mount and attachment points are made from Stainless Steel which doesn't like to crack. However those sections are welded to the steel body and that could be a problem for cracking.

    TonyK.

    Grimsby Ontario Canada
     
  17. Dr.Jeff

    Dr.Jeff True Classic

    Location:
    Sin City
    I remember Miller's Mule very well. When I had my first X (many years ago) he was still in business and he offered many very nice products. More recently when the current X come to my possession I went straight for his site, but he was gone. I'd love to have several of the parts he made...or even good reference materials to them (guess I did not save any of the data). I'd appreciate seeing your other crank pulley set-up. Also any pictures to illustrate the cam trigger tooth arrangement. Thanks
     
  18. lookforjoe

    lookforjoe True Classic

    Man, there's much beautiful work there! I love those NACA ducts :) Thanks for sharing all that. Looks like your torque levels out quite nicely. I love all the detail work to make it just so. I do agree with others that it would make sense to try & introduce some engine damping. I added a very stiff dogbone mount, and that alone makes it unpleasant compared to stock. I can only imagine the level with solid mounts like yours. I'm sure you will weigh all the options carefully though.
     
  19. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    I stopped summing up the cost when I realized that knowing the total would be a big interference with my pleasure in the process. The build was spread across a number of years, so this was easy to do. Sorry, I don't know the total.

    I too worry about stress cracking. Today I was under the car adjusting the shifter, and I was looking for any disturbed paint in suspicious places.

    You know, we live close to each other, I am in Kitchener. When the salt is off the roads we should check out each other's rides. Alas, that will be quite a while from now.

    Paul
     
  20. PaulD

    PaulD Paul Davock

    Location:
    Kitchener, Ontario
    Thanks for that Hussein. Your work has that same attention to detail, so I really appreciate the complement.

    Paul
     

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