1974 engine oil, no mods. Thoughts?

All modern API-certified (SN and SN+) oils have lower ZDDP levels and are not suitable for flat tappet engines, including diesel oils.

I've been using Driven HR1 15W50 for the past 4 or 5 years with a good filter (non-synthetic)

1618156668783.png


drivenracingoil.com

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil
drivenracingoil.com
 
As long as it has at least three of the following you'll be fine - ultimate nano technology , friction reducers, friction modifiers, ceramic technology, added Boron, added molybdenum, added stabilisers, powdered hens teeth. The oil is actually just a bulking agent 😁 .
 
kmead said:
Many of the Diesel oils have had their zinc levels dropped because of their own catalyst issues (phosphorous in the zinc-dialkyl-dithiophosphate unfortunately creates a phosphate coating on the matrix reducing converter efficacy).
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myronx19 said:
All modern API-certified (SN and SN+) oils have lower ZDDP levels and are not suitable for flat tappet engines, including diesel oils.
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Exactly. Many enthusiasts think diesel oils are better for older engines due to having a high zinc content. At one time that was mostly true (although not all diesel oils did). But regulations have required them to change and they no longer have the high zinc level.

I also agree with @kmead, @Bjorn Nilson, and others about synthetics. Our old engines weren't specified for synthetic oil because it really didn't exist them. But that doesn't mean synthetic is bad for a older design engine. There is a lot of benefit to be had, not the least of which is its ability to sit in a seldom used engine for long periods without harm, like standard oils will do.


RZSR X said:
In one of my industrial college courses I tested the viscosity of different oils and was surprised at the outcome.
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There was a study done on motorcycle lubricants where an independent lab tested the viscosity of around 30 different products. The point was to check how the viscosity on the product's label compared to the actual tested viscosity. So even if their testing procedure differed from the manufacturer, at least it was consistent to compare all of the oils relative to one another. The results were shocking (at least to me). The actual viscosities were all over the place compared to the claimed viscosity. And I mean by a LOT. Some very light lubes were much heavier than some heavy ones, and vice versa. In some cases even for the same brand (i.e. their 30 wt vs their 40 wt)! I mean there was no rhyme or reason to any of it. I always thought things like that were regulated and standardized. But according to the article it really isn't (at least not in the way we might think).


Bjorn Nilson said:
There are 3 types of Valvoline Racing VR available; 5w50 (synth.), 20w50 (mineral) and 10w60 (semi synth.). Which one do you use?
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I noticed there was a change in Valvoline VR products a year or so ago. Among other things they added a couple of options to the line as you note. But if I'm not mistaken only one of them has the added higher level of zinc? And I believe it is a full synthetic? I think that would be my choice.


Someone else (@RZSR X ?) mentioned break-in oil for a newly rebuilt engine. That is where I would either use a oil specified as "break-in", or one that has proven to work well for that purpose. In other words I would treat the break-in period differently from the rest of the engine's life.
 
speedy fiat said:
As long as it has at least three of the following you'll be fine - ultimate nano technology , friction reducers, friction modifiers, ceramic technology, added Boron, added molybdenum, added stabilisers, powdered hens teeth. The oil is actually just a bulking agent 😁 .
Click to expand...
You reminded me of a recent car polish commercial I saw. Apparently the new marketing 'buzzword' is no longer "ceramic", but "graphene". However "nano" still lives on:
www.goldeagle.com

303® Graphene Nano Spray Coating™

1+ year of premium protection Lowers surface temperature, reducing water-spotting High water contact angle, sheds water quickly Can be applied on black paint or in direct sunlight Great for use on chrome, wheels, trim, and glass 15.5 oz bottle
www.goldeagle.com www.goldeagle.com

en.wikipedia.org

Graphene - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
myronx19 said:
All modern API-certified (SN and SN+) oils have lower ZDDP levels and are not suitable for flat tappet engines, including diesel oils.

I've been using Driven HR1 15W50 for the past 4 or 5 years with a good filter (non-synthetic)

View attachment 45973

drivenracingoil.com

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil
drivenracingoil.com
Click to expand...

That can’t be true, the oil I linked to before (API certified) has the same Zinc PPM / percentage as the HR1 oil.....
 
NEG said:
That can’t be true, the oil I linked to before (API certified) has the same Zinc PPM / percentage as the HR1 oil.....
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It looks like your link has gone cold, but I believe it was pointing to Comma XT2000 15W-40. This is an API SL oil; Myron was referring to API SN and SN+ oils.
 
Yes, there are a few 'special' oils with additional zinc levels. They fall under a different classification so have different requirements/regulations.
 
The other issue is actually being able to purchase the correct oil as nobody seems to stock it! 🤪
 
I have typically used 10/30 in my X. Usually Mobile 1. I may have used Castrol GTX once or twice. On my next change (very soon) I'm dropping the pan and having a look-see.
My typical oil change regime is once a year, usually in the spring, to be used for "driving season". Since I don't use the car after October, I leave the previous/current seasons oil in the car over winter. The cycle is then repeated in the spring. Its seemed to work well for me. Last year (2020) was a bit of a departure, as I did a second oil change mid season, in preparation for FFO on the Dragon.
 
I tend to run 20/50 as the temps I run my cars at are during the warm months and I know how to drive gingerly until the engine is up to temp.

I am pretty certain the VR I can get is a full synthetic. I just put away a jug of it the other day so I will check.

Yup synthetic. Silver label conventional, black label synthetic.
D4FE3EE2-EDD2-4DAA-8D76-068A6D3111AA.jpeg
 
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kmead said:
I tend to run 20/50 as the temps I run my cars at are during the warm months and I know how to drive gingerly until the engine is up to temp.

I am pretty certain the VR I can get is a full synthetic. I just put away a jug of it the other day so I will check.

Yup synthetic. Silver label conventional, black label synthetic.View attachment 46023
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so you're ok with the 20w-50 synthetic as opposed to the 20w-50 non?
 
kmead said:
Yup synthetic. Silver label conventional, black label synthetic.
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Dr.Jeff said:
Especially when you consider that "Duckhams" is a British product and the majority of us are in the US (where it isn't sold).
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Unfortunately Black label (not talking about Johnny Walker whisky😉) is not available here and neither is Duckham oil.
I had an e-mail conversation with "Oljekompaniet" here in Sweden which is a big reseller of several brands. They sell a lot of oil for daily drivers, classic, performance and race cars. They say:
10W-40 race oil is nice for track driving but there are short intervals on the change that apply to such an oil. Race oil lubricates effectively when you drive really hard, but it cannot decompose with condensation etc just as well.
Street oil that can handle a little more everyday driving well with maintained intervals, I think of the 5W-40 fully synthetic which should be what you are looking for. 15W-40 is mineral, and 10W-40 is partially synthetic except for Race Oils.

To me (not 100% race), the fully synthetic 5W-40 seems to be the best option, but it does not contain the necessary ZDDP levels that's needed in our engines. I am awaiting an answer from them if it is ok to mix zink additives to it.
1618258559546.png
 
Bjorn Nilson said:
race oil is nice for track driving but there are short intervals on the change that apply to such an oil
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Typically this is true for race oils. However some makers have oils labeled as "race" but have the same additives, etc as their regular (street) oil. So the same is not true from those particular products. I vaguely recall this is what some of the Valvoline "race" products are(?). I think in some cases they might use the label "race" for marketing purposes more than anything.
 
Valvoline lists the ZDDP levels in their tech info.
The Pro-V (I think that's what it's called) has a 3600ppm rating. It's a strictly race oil that needs to be changed every race, I think that's 500 miles in their write up.
The street/race has up to 1400ppm depending on whether it's synthetic or not.
What is the minimum ZDDP requirement for flat tappet engines?
 
myronx19 said:
All modern API-certified (SN and SN+) oils have lower ZDDP levels and are not suitable for flat tappet engines, including diesel oils.

I've been using Driven HR1 15W50 for the past 4 or 5 years with a good filter (non-synthetic)

View attachment 45973

drivenracingoil.com

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil

Driven HR1 15W-50 Conventional Hot Rod Oil
drivenracingoil.com
Click to expand...
Driven is the only current oil that LNS & Jake Raby recommend for their air cooled and M96 builds
 
I'm not an oil expert, but I do add a a bottle of ZDDP additive to the oil on one of my cars. It's highly recommended for that model.
As I understand the reason to remove the zinc (ZDDP) from engine oil, is that it kills the catalytic converter. I think that's why you would have a difficult time finding it in any oil intended for street driven vehicles. But for an oil formulated for "racing only" would likely have lots of ZDDP.
As for synthic v dino oil, I believe the synthetic oil can deal with high temps better. In my opinion, that's a good enough reason to use it.
 
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