RED X19

Wondering about opportunities to get more power.

Some people have got about 400hp from stroking 1.6 block to 1.9 with turbo..

400 IS NOT MY GOAL, yet :D , just curios, before am starting to spend money, would like to understand what are options and how much each of them could cost and what power they can give.

If I can get Stylo/Marea/Multipla 182B6000 78.4mm crank for cents , what pistons and rods I have to have to make them work with turbo?
So far I understand that 86.4 is no popular size for bores, and thats why blocks are bored to 87mm, what I am not willing to do, is it possible to get some for example 87mm (or what are they actual D) pistons and decrease on lathe diameter to fit in block? May BMW S50B32 pistons fit? - Compression height 31mm, bore 86.4, pin size 22mm.

If, I have understood something wrong, please say, I have never done or tought about serious engine's jobs before.
 
You need to get the stock piston dimensions and go from there. Too many variables. Machining pistons down in size is not a viable option. I'd start by looking at the Ultimate Engine Build / Guide thread by SteveC .

Crank throw may not be workable - you may end up with connecting rods smacking the inside of the block. All things you need to investigate, preferably find a person who's done it & get the specs from them on what actually worked, or it's going to become a large expensive paperweight.
 
Ouch, not a good sound, and after so much work as well. Hang in there, you have a large crowd following your progress and wishing you the best!
 
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I have decided that will begin with turbocharged 1.6 punto engine with aftermarket ecu.
Only pistons will be machined to drop CR.

Any other try to increase power would move it further from seeing roads.
I have to leave also a place where to add power in future.

Have very little time to spend on the car now, so it could be in order in January or February.
 
Makes sense, that should move it briskly enough down the road (for now :D). Given that you may need suspension and other supporting work for power beyond that, it sounds like reasonable plan :)
 
Janis, the Punto engine looks to be much more modern than the X1/9 engine, so it should be worth building. Good decision.
 
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Pistons are out for machine work.
Put a stove in garage, it motivates to work same as in spring :D


what camshaft would You suggest UTmk1 or Punto 1.6? (tuner who will install ecu asked Your advice) in top and bottom of picture are parameters.


As I understood Punto and Tipo 1.6 heads are different, Tipo has bigger exhaust valves.
 
Pistons are ready.
In holidays am going to finish assembly work on engine and put it into X19.

Have no idea about power what it will make, but from electrician understood that it could reach more than gearbox could take.

still haven't changed internals from ut box, because original box looked rebuilt from outside, 3d gear synchro is bad, will leave.

Are in stock engine all rings equal? When took them off, by accident mixed rings for three pistons because tried to be too much careful with orders and directions to assemble them back same way.

is there any gains or losses using UT mk1 or Punto 1.6 flywheel+clutch+starter motor?

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while it works.
 
If you are reusing rings (not a good idea),they really need to go back exactly as they came out - if you flip them, etc., the wear pattern is going to be all wrong. Opening yourself up to risk of breaking rings/ blow by, etc.

You’re not honing the bores & going with new rings? Seems like good insurance while it’s stripped down. What about the crank & rod bearings? If you are building this for more than stock output, it makes no sense to cut corners, in my experience.
 
My plan was to not do those things, but to be sure that it’s safe, was looking for comment like Your’s, thanks.
 
Punto 1.6 8 valve piston rings are thinner than regular sohc... 1.5/1.75/3 from memory...

not the ideal way to drop the CR by skimming all the way across the piston, better would have been to machine the existing bowl in the punto piston deeper... the way you've done it has now increased the SQ clearance by the amount you removed...so basically the same effect as having used a very thick head gasket, not ideal but will work.

SteveC
 
fiatfactory said:
Punto 1.6 8 valve piston rings are thinner than regular sohc... 1.5/1.75/3 from memory...

not the ideal way to drop the CR by skimming all the way across the piston, better would have been to machine the existing bowl in the punto piston deeper... the way you've done it has now increased the SQ clearance by the amount you removed...so basically the same effect as having used a very thick head gasket, not ideal but will work.

SteveC
Click to expand...

How do SQ clearance works?
Could someone please explain “squish” and “quench” meanings?
 
The pistons deck measurement and the head gasket compressed thickness determine the engines Squish / Quench (SQ) clearance. SQ is different to Piston to Head clearance. In a SOHC a large SQ area is presented at the far side (away from the plug and hence the ignition point) of the combustion space. If the SQ is kept tight, this can be used to promote good pre-combustion swirl. Its called SQ because as the piston rises it 'squishes' the remaining air / fuel mixture in this area towards the ignition point. Whatever fuel /air is left in this small space at TDC is then 'quenched' and cooled by the large surface area to volume presented.

SteveC
 
Hi and hello to the forum. I've been running an X1/9 Uno turbo for a few years and seem to have gone through most of your issues. By the time you get your hands on an Uno/Punto Gt engine it will likely be in poor condition due to the standard stresses it's under and some ham fisted tuning by the previous owners. Cylinder heads are nearly always cracked in several places, pistons start to break up between the rings, the crank is likely to be oval leading to bearing problems and the cylinder bores badly worn. New turbo pistons are available but in a limited choice of oversize, new heads are unavailable but you can use a naturally aspirated head that has lead an easy life (from a Strada, etc ) and get it machined to give the correct compression as well as do any valve and gas flow work. The standard engine management system is okay but cannot effectively handle the requirements of much tuning, hence the cracked head heads and melted pistons. The air flow meters for Uno Turbo and early Punto Gt are almost impossible to track down, second hand ones are nearly always broken.
Having said all that it need not be all doom and gloom as my car is currently running 198hp reliably on standard components(I compete in hill climbs and sprints) but that has required a fully mappable ecu to better control fuelling and other engine functions, bigger turbo, bigger injectors, charge cooler and other stuff to make sure the engine internals stay where they are. Obviously I realise reliability is relative to your expectations but its covered a over four thousand miles and lasted four years in competition and on being pulled apart after this season is shows no ill effects
 
Jon, thanks for the input.
I am also interested in learning about UT - X1/9 information so I've been following Janis' discussions. Your experience with this is very helpful; learning the good and bad of stock UT components, as well as aftermarket additions and what works best for a street build is valuable. Please add some specific details about your components and set-up.
Thanks
 
Janis, I assume that was the condition the cylinders when you removed the pistons, and you have not already honed them? If they already looked like this, those hone markings almost look recent. Maybe this engine already has been re-ringed? Was the compression good before tearing it down?
 
Jon, thanks for input also!

Jeff, Yes, I haven’t honed them.
Have no idea about compression before, engine worked well and smooth even with green connector for spark wires.
Previous owner had done something to engine, what exactly, don’t know. I assume that of aftermarket headgasket, broken thermostat in glove box, broken studs for manifolds in head and few missing bolts for some small bits.
Those rectangular washers for sump were positioned too pedantic for most mechanics, sorry if I offend anyone, so I’m pretty sure sump hasn’t been opened from factory. These 1.6 Punto NA engines have oil squirters in rods, that may have been helped to keep cylinders in good condition. On clock that car had 250000km, not sure is it true because 90% cars here actually have rewinded down odometers by 2 or 3 times to increase value.

Tomorrow will put rings in cylinders and check gaps.

I have to keep in mind first target of this X19 - reliable and fun daily car with consumption under 8l/100km and bigger power to weight ratio than bmw e30 325i. :oops: In other case it could become neverending story and it’s already have taken my free time of 8 months what isn’t reliable :D
 
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