1985 Fiat x19 Thermostat
- Thread starter Red128
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Dr.Jeff
True Classic
There is a rubber seal in the housing, buried into a grove where you have the thermostat sitting. The seal comes out and goes over the edge of the thermostat, then they go back into the gove together. That will allow it to sit lower. Check to make sure the seal is in good condition.
The gasket misalignment is typical of certain brands of these gaskets unfortunately. There are some better ones that fit correctly. But you should be able to elongate the three small holes to get it to work. Also make sure it is orientated correctly.
The gasket misalignment is typical of certain brands of these gaskets unfortunately. There are some better ones that fit correctly. But you should be able to elongate the three small holes to get it to work. Also make sure it is orientated correctly.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Use a new gasket. Install the gasket on the thermostat, there is a groove on the inside of the new gasket that sits on the outside flange of the gasket, roll the new gasket on to the thermostat. Clean out the groove where this thermostat with gasket sits before installing. Use new M6 cap screws, stainless steel if possible with anti-seize. The old screws will go into the circular bin never to be seen again. If the screw are re-used, the risk of problems is very high.
Do not run the exxe cooling system without the correct thermostat as the cooling system will NOT circulate coolant to the coolant pipes and front radiator if the proper thermostat is not installed.
Make absolute sure to air purge the cooling system once the cooling system is put back together and filled with proper coolant. Failure to properly air purge the cooling system will ROAST the engine..
Bernice
Do not run the exxe cooling system without the correct thermostat as the cooling system will NOT circulate coolant to the coolant pipes and front radiator if the proper thermostat is not installed.
Make absolute sure to air purge the cooling system once the cooling system is put back together and filled with proper coolant. Failure to properly air purge the cooling system will ROAST the engine..
Bernice
ng_randolph
Bjorn H
It looks like you are missing the rubber gasket that slips onto the thermostat:
This rubber gasket is in addition to the paper gasket you show.
This rubber gasket is in addition to the paper gasket you show.
Jeff Stich
True Classic
FYI - when swapping an X1/9 engine into a 128 (like you're doing), you need to use the 128 thermostat housing, not the X1/9 one. The radiator hose ports on each housing are in different locations & at different angles, each particular to their own application, If you use the X1/9 thermostat housing, the hose ports will point directly at/into the back of the radiator cooling fan, & the hoses will not line up with their intended target points on the radiator.
Use the 128 thermostat housing, with the same thermostat & gaskets that you already have.
Use the 128 thermostat housing, with the same thermostat & gaskets that you already have.
Red128
Daily Driver
Wow thanks for pointing that out! The 128 thermostat housing is in pretty bad shape. Matt at MWB offered to straight trade me my X19 thermo housing for a new 128 thermo housing!
www.midwest-bayless.com
Thermostat (Fiat Strada 1979-80 Carb No AC) - OE NOS
Thermostat (Fiat Strada 1979-80 Carb No AC) - OE NOS
www.midwest-bayless.com
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Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I you plan to keep the fuel injection system on this engine then you will need to make a place for the coolant temp sensor to mount. The X1/9 thermostat housing had it, so by swapping to a 128 t-stat housing you will lose that. There are two temp sensors, the other one is on the side of the head, and you'll need both (for FI) so you cannot just swap them (plus they are different sizes). Depending on which head you have there may be a raised round spot where you can drill and tap a hole for the second sensor.
If you swap to a carb then you will only need one of the temp sensors, but not the one that's on the head. So you still need to find a way to mount another size sensor somewhere. You might be able to find an adaptor to fit it in the larger hole where the other sensor was (as that one will no longer be needed)?
If you swap to a carb then you will only need one of the temp sensors, but not the one that's on the head. So you still need to find a way to mount another size sensor somewhere. You might be able to find an adaptor to fit it in the larger hole where the other sensor was (as that one will no longer be needed)?
Red128
Daily Driver
Okay thanks for the info, so in short what you’re saying is to keep the X19 t-stat and look for hoses elbowed to run to the 128 radiator inlets. That’s pretty much the only reason I’m swapping the X19 t-stat to the 128 t-stat anyways because of the directions the outlet/inlets point.
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fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
You get three choices of thermostat design that will fit the head.
On the left is X19 (an EFI one like you already have, in the middle is a later model Ritmo / Regata FL2, that is also used on EFI models (with SPI), and on the right is a thermostat from a Fiat 128.
You can see the X19 housing is going to angle the hoses in completlely the wrong way to fit into 128 bodywork and with a standard 128 radiator.
The middle thermostat at least has two of the outlets pointing pretty much where you want them, and it has the bonus of having a casting that has points to attach temp senders for EFI to. This particular housing isn't for the SPI model, I don't have any of those left in stock, but the manufacturer (Behr-Thompson) chose to use the same casting for efi and non efi models, but not finish some of the holes.
I guess that's good for you as you can drill / tap to suit the sender sizes you have.
weighs a little under 500 grams, postage to the USA for a 500g parcel is $30aud, the thermostat is $90aud, paypal OK,
PM me. I would also be happy to do a swap for the X19 housing.
SteveC
On the left is X19 (an EFI one like you already have, in the middle is a later model Ritmo / Regata FL2, that is also used on EFI models (with SPI), and on the right is a thermostat from a Fiat 128.
You can see the X19 housing is going to angle the hoses in completlely the wrong way to fit into 128 bodywork and with a standard 128 radiator.
The middle thermostat at least has two of the outlets pointing pretty much where you want them, and it has the bonus of having a casting that has points to attach temp senders for EFI to. This particular housing isn't for the SPI model, I don't have any of those left in stock, but the manufacturer (Behr-Thompson) chose to use the same casting for efi and non efi models, but not finish some of the holes.
I guess that's good for you as you can drill / tap to suit the sender sizes you have.
weighs a little under 500 grams, postage to the USA for a 500g parcel is $30aud, the thermostat is $90aud, paypal OK,
PM me. I would also be happy to do a swap for the X19 housing.
SteveC
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Dan Sarandrea (Phila)
Waitin' On Parts...
With several folks eager to acquire your fuel injected edition of the thermostat housing, that tells you they are getting thin on the ground (scarce).
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
not so much EFI specific housings for me, as here in Australia there are very few EFI Fiats, we have mostly carb cars until late 1980's and then only something like 51 EFI Bertone cars across the country...just X19 thermo housings in general are not the easiest thing to find, if I see a good one for sale I usually try grab it as I know it will come in handy., converting an EFI housing to suit a carb car is easy.
SteveC
SteveC
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I'm not sure which is easier to do; use the X1/9 housing and reroute the hoses, or use the 128 housing and relocate the temp sender. A third option might be to install a inline coolant hose adaptor with a threaded bung for a extra sensor. But one way or another you will need to have that temp sender (circled in pic below) connected to the cooling system.
I'm guessing it may be fairly easy to locate a 128 housing, but quite costly to source one from some model we never had in America. Besides, it sounds like that will still require drilling and tapping, so you might as well do that on the head instead? As was mentioned earlier, some heads have a "boss" on them where another sender would have gone. It is a small mound in the aluminum casting and would need to be drilled and tapped like was described for the other t-stat housing (example shown below).
Some heads even have a extra sender hole that was used for other functions, and you can retap it to work. Or if you choose to eliminate the dash temp gauge, then you can retap the hole for its sender and place the FI sender there.
But it gets a little confusing because there were a few different arrangements on these engines, depending on the year and equipment installed. Some had only one sensor hole on the head, some two, three or even four. Although in some cases one of those holes is for a oil sensor, not coolant. And I don't know which head you have (there are some examples shown below).
To summarize, for a FI engine there will be at least two coolant senders; a large one on the head that is for the warm-up circuit (the "time-temp switch", or "TTS"), and a medium size one for the ECU (the one on the T-stat housing in most cases). In addition there may be a smaller third one that only feeds the dashboard temp gauge (I think some also had that on the T-stat housing, but others have it on the head). Some years also had the second one (for the ECU) on the head instead of the T-stat housing. Then there are non-FI heads with other arrangements, but you don't have that so no need to over complicate things.
FI "ECU" temp sender that you need - I think this is the style of T-stat housing you have.
Below are examples of where sensors would have been on some heads...
Here you see two views of the Temp-Time Switch (TTS) and dash gauge, then the ECH sensor is on the T-stat housing (like the above pic).
That smaller one to the right (for the dash gauge) could possibly be resized and repurposed for the ECU sender. That will eliminate any dash engine temp display. Although it would be easy to add it back with a inline coolant hose adaptor like this...
You may even be able to add this inline adaptor to a coolant hose for the ECU sensor, but I'd prefer to have it on the head and move the gauge sensor to the hose.
This head has four senders on the head, but one is for the oil - third from the left (someone please correct me if I got that wrong).
And this head had the extra "boss" (yellow) where another sender would have gone in other years but was eliminated here. The red arrows are the same two we saw above.
That boss (in yellow, if you had it) could be drilled and tapped to add the ECU sender there.
If you have a clear picture of your head we can narrow all this down more. But the point is there are alternatives.
Jeff Stich
True Classic
There's really no need to make things difficult or spend money on exotic parts from afar.
1. Remove (& keep) the temp sensor from your 85 X1/9 FI thermostat housing.
2. Sell off the X1/9 FI thermo housing unit here on Xweb (fast & easy $50-$60 sale).
3. Buy a 128 1-piece replacement thermostat housing (like the one MWB & fiatfactory have offered) on eBay for $20-$22 shipped. https://www.ebay.com/itm/184449699887 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/302483495729
4. Have a bung welded onto the side of the 128 housing's upper tube & drilled/tapped to fit your 85 X FI temp sensor (should cost $20-$40 or maybe a 12-pack at a local welding shop), or just buy/install an inline pipe fitting with a sensor bung (like the blue one that Dr. Jeff noted) in the upper radiator hose.
5. Install temp sensor & you're done.
Now you have an OEM thermostat unit with the needed Fi sensor, & you can just use OE 128 radiator hoses & not have to worry about cobbling up some oddball radiator hose fitment that won't hit the radiator fan motor/housing.
1. Remove (& keep) the temp sensor from your 85 X1/9 FI thermostat housing.
2. Sell off the X1/9 FI thermo housing unit here on Xweb (fast & easy $50-$60 sale).
3. Buy a 128 1-piece replacement thermostat housing (like the one MWB & fiatfactory have offered) on eBay for $20-$22 shipped. https://www.ebay.com/itm/184449699887 or https://www.ebay.com/itm/302483495729
4. Have a bung welded onto the side of the 128 housing's upper tube & drilled/tapped to fit your 85 X FI temp sensor (should cost $20-$40 or maybe a 12-pack at a local welding shop), or just buy/install an inline pipe fitting with a sensor bung (like the blue one that Dr. Jeff noted) in the upper radiator hose.
5. Install temp sensor & you're done.
Now you have an OEM thermostat unit with the needed Fi sensor, & you can just use OE 128 radiator hoses & not have to worry about cobbling up some oddball radiator hose fitment that won't hit the radiator fan motor/housing.
Jeff Stich
True Classic
The oil port is in the engine block. No X1/9 or 128 head uses a port for anything oil-related, only temp (coolant) or air (emissions).
The ECU temp sensor needs to be placed in a remote (post-warmup) location, not on the head. Otherwise, Fiat would've just put the sensor there on the head instead of on the thermostat housing.
The 4 (not 2) smaller ports seen just above/adjacent to each spark plug hole are for the air-injection system (for emissions) on some 1300 models. Nothing oil-related. Heads like this are/were often found with the 4 holes plugged using Fiat lugbolts on de-smogged cars, a common low-buck solution of the era.
Dr.Jeff
True Classic
I completely disagree with that, but it isn't important.
I stand corrected what the extra port was for. That's why I asked to be corrected about it in my post because I wasn't sure. Thanks for the info.
fiatfactory
Steve Cecchele
Actually the ritmo / regata platform WAS sold in the USA, it was called the Strada over there, but it's the same Fiat 138 platform. I don't know if the Strada came with EFI in the USA, but some vendor over there may have a Strada thermostat just like the one I have with the bosses there ready to drill, which I would think is an easy / neat solution myself... You got EFI models of Yugo in the USA too, they must have put the TTS somewhere?
$90aud is about $50usd, almost the same as Matt is asking for his 128 Thermostat in his store, so I don't actually see it as "costly" or "exotic" either?
SteveC
Jeff Stich
True Classic
We did have a Strada 1500 FI here in the USA. It had the cam-mounted distributor, so the thermostat housing had a horizontally-directed top hose spigot (like the one you showed). I don't recall where the ECU sensor was located, but I'd assume in a bung on the thermo housing, as well. The Yugo EFI was a similar setup. Both were available for ~2 years only (1980-81).
Using this Strada (or Yugo) housing, the sensor bung is there, but a custom upper radiator hose would need to be sourced due to the now-misdirected (for the 128) top hose spigot.
Using a 128 housing, the hose port is correct, but the FI sensor bung would need to be added (welded on).
$50 for your thermostat (or Matts) is 2.5x the cost of an OEM 128 unit sourced from eBay USA. Adding in the cost of welding a bung on the 128 unit, things break about even**. So it comes down to having to find a custom top hose that'll work with the Strada housing, or being able to just use an OE 128 top hose with the 128 housing - Buyer's call.
** This is assuming that Red128 doesn't know how to weld &/or doesn't have the equipment to do it. If he does, then the 128 unit seems a no-brainer, cost-wise.
Using this Strada (or Yugo) housing, the sensor bung is there, but a custom upper radiator hose would need to be sourced due to the now-misdirected (for the 128) top hose spigot.
Using a 128 housing, the hose port is correct, but the FI sensor bung would need to be added (welded on).
$50 for your thermostat (or Matts) is 2.5x the cost of an OEM 128 unit sourced from eBay USA. Adding in the cost of welding a bung on the 128 unit, things break about even**. So it comes down to having to find a custom top hose that'll work with the Strada housing, or being able to just use an OE 128 top hose with the 128 housing - Buyer's call.
** This is assuming that Red128 doesn't know how to weld &/or doesn't have the equipment to do it. If he does, then the 128 unit seems a no-brainer, cost-wise.
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Dr.Jeff
True Classic
Getting off topic, sorry. Unfortunately I found a professional welder very close to @Red128's house that I highly do NOT recommend. He was referred to me for a specialized welding job that requires a skilled technique most welders can't do. Supposedly he has a great reputation for doing it, perhaps one of only a few in the region. But the work was terrible, the cost extremely high, and the time needed to do MUCH longer than quoted. And he did not do the highly skilled technique we discussed, I could have done the same for free. Finding good shops to do any work these days has become nearly impossible. Ok, back on topic.
Jeff Stich
True Classic
I have a welding shop near me that does good work at a fair rate. I had an Abarth oil pan & oil pump pick-up that needed repair, total cost for both was $60. I also know of a very good welder in the Costa Mesa Irvine, CA area that my shopmate uses, but his work is (accordingly) quite expen$ive.
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