24 hours of lemons build and VW VR6 swap.

[Steve Hoelscher]

Steve H, one question for you. With all the electronic adjustments in race cars today, do you have two "settings" for the pro driver and the gentleman driver so as driver changes are made a switch is hit for the right driving mode?

Interesting question. The answer is yes, sort of. There are way more things to fool with on a modern GT3, or GT4 car than one can imagine. Somewhere I have some photos of modern racecar steering wheels and dashboards. I'll dig one up and post it for reference.

Electronic controls have added another dimension to the setup parameters. So yes, I can have settings for driver A and driver B and often do, but its not just a flip of a switch. Modern driver adjustments (electronics) are things like; engine mapping, throttle mapping, shift mapping, rev limits. Stability control is mostly limited to street cars at this point but ABS and Traction control are very advanced in modern GT cars, with multiple settings available via a steering wheel mounted dial. There are now electronically adjustable shocks that can do lots of very exotic things and, like the other systems, can have a range of mapping options via a dial on the steering wheel.

Of course all of these system are programmable. Most race fans are familiar with the engine mapping selections for power or fuel economy, but few know that throttle mapping is a very important parameter. The rate of throttle opening to rate of change in throttle angle, or percent or dampening, are all configurable. One driver may prefer a very sharp throttle where another may prefer one with much more modulation available. Then an engineer may see in the TPS data that a driver is invoking too much traction control intervention because he's too aggressive with the throttle. So I can remap the throttle do dampen out his commands and actually improve acceleration.

I can adjust brake bias with the ABS system and the various ABS Maps can be selected via another steering wheel knob. Same for traction control. These systems can have dry and wet settings as well as other special conditions. As an example, years ago a driver had to retire a car because he spun off into the grass in the rain. He couldn't rejoin because the traction control system wouldn't let the tires spin on the wet grass. So the car effectively stalled every time he touched the throttle. So now most have an override setting for getting out of a gravel trap or wet grass.

Each driver will be briefed on the various settings and will know to make the necessary changes on the drive out of pit lane following a driver change. So the next time you see a driver spin exiting pit lane and the announcer blames "cold tires" it could be that, or it could be that the driver didn't get the correct switch settings, or was busy fiddling with the various dials while trying to make a reasonably quick exit and simply had too much going on.

 

[carl]

Thanks Steve. I'm from the era when brake bias adjustment was the only in car variable!

 

[rozap]

Anyone have any thoughts on how bad this transmission plug is? Definitely some shavings there. Replacing the gear oil with redline MT90 as folks recommend.

I'd like to track down a spare 5 speed just as a backup.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Anyone have any thoughts on how bad this transmission plug is? Definitely some shavings there. Replacing the gear oil with redline MT90 as folks recommend.

I'd like to track down a spare 5 speed just as a backup.

That's normal. If you haven't researched the transmissions yet you'll find out that the transmission is the car's weakest point. They work reasonably well when in good condition but they have a number of known issues. You will want to ensure that the transmission is in good working order before you enter an event. You should assume that any used transmission is in poor condition unless it is from a known source that can verify its condition.

I buy all of the used transmissions I can get my hands on and its rare that I find one that could be installed and used as-is.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

Thanks Steve. I'm from the era when brake bias adjustment was the only in car variable!

Yeah, and that's the era I started in.

This is a standard McLaren GT3, before a team gets their hands on it to add all of their systems.

 

[Rupunzell]

Majority of 5 sp transaxles are beat to !_!_!_! . Most of the time third gear synchro is beyond munched or reverse gear does not work at all.

History often goes, 2nd > 3rd is used lots and due to the lesser than eye peeling acceleration, most drivers SLAM the gear shift from 2nd to 3rd with the belief it will accelerate the car faster. What most do not realize, that Porsche synchro can never shift anywhere near as fast as the driver demands digesting the teeth on the slider and 3rd gear. I've seen 3rd gears in these transaxles with completely rounded teeth to missing teeth and the Porsche synchro band is really smooth with the internal braking band bent and more..

Reverse gear is often dead due to drivers slamming the transaxle into reverse instead of allowing the gears to slow down enough while in neutral to ease engaging reverse. Slamming into reverse can cause broken reverse gear teeth, chipped input shaft gears. Add to this, accelerating hard in reverse can cause the reverse gear shaft to bend and could crack the reverse gear shaft boss in the front side of the transaxle case. Last versions of this 5sp transaxle had a 18mm -vs- 16mm reverse gear shaft that help the problem with reverse gear.

~Then drivers and related complain and broadcast loudly how this Italian POS is the worst stink'n heap they have ever tried to drive,
All the while Porsche transaxle from this same era have exactly the same problem.. except those folks accept that reality designed into
a German Porsche transaxle. BTW, this is THE limitation in the Mazda Rotary LeMons car, that Porsche 901 is very slow shifting causing a host of difficulties with the drivers. A fix for this is in the works.. and it will NOT be one of those German transaxles again. some what fragile, CV joints that are exotic for zero good reasons (likely not true back when these were new) slow shifting, gears ratios does not match well for the power band of the PP rotary, replacement parts cost is absurd and...

You'll need to get this exxe up and running to know what condition this 5sp transaxle is in. Could be OK, could be missing reverse and no synchro third or?

Post what ya find, we will figure it out.

As for spare transaxles, they have become rare. At one time it was difficult to give them away and parts were low cost. That is no longer reality. I've got a few spare from when we were running the stock Fiat power train and about 6-7 as parts.


Bernice

I'd like to track down a spare 5 speed just as a backup.

 

[rozap]

I've done a fair amount of driving, which is how I learned about the bad wheel bearing. 3rd gear is definitely crunchy, but mostly ok if you take it slow. Reverse works fine, but it does pop out of reverse unless you hold the shifter there, but I figured that may be a linkage issue. Also the clutch needs adjusting since the point at which it engages is at the bottom of the throw - it is an easy thing to fix but figured it may be causing some of the difficult shifts.

That's a shame that they're getting hard to come by. One forum member offered me 3 free engines/transaxles (I'm still amazed at how generous people are around here) but alas they were 1300s and 4 speeds. From what I've read you can mix them, but it's not a straight swap.

 

[Steve Hoelscher]

3rd gear is typically the first thing to go. Crunchy is typical. Popping out of reverse is also common and the early stages of failure. Its not the linkage.

4 and 5 speeds share a few parts and I have converted a few 4 speeds to 5 speeds. Its not a straight forward conversion and requires quite a bit of knowledge and effort. Its much easier to simply fix the 5 speed.

Regardless, people do race/track these transmissions. MT90 and an educated hand will very much extend its service life.

I can't help but laugh at the Porschephiles. They simply accept that the 901 transmission is "Porsche" and that a driver simply adapts. There is virtually no expressed opinion that its a crap design, and like most things Porsche, needlessly complex and expensive.

 

[Rupunzell]

Back when the Fiat power train was run in the LeMons car, the transaxle would be taken apart, gone over, worn or questionable parts replaced, put back together and run. It survived fine until that transaxle had to deal with a proper race prepped Lampredi SOHC motor, sticky tires and varied drivers. After several hours of racing, that Lampredi motor digested 3rd gear with a burp. This cause a drive back to the shop, put together a spare transaxle in about two hours, drive it back up to Sears Point, install it back into the LeMons racer.

Car ran the entire next day with zero problems. Even held off a Porsche 928 to the end of that race.

That would be "hot rodded" Lampredi 1500cc -vs- 5000cc of German Porsche V8 and a HUGE weight difference.
When folks tell of how these "Fiat" engines are crap, fragile, bust easy and not reliable... little do they really know.

Crunchy 3rd gear could be an indicator it's service time is limited. Not staying in reverse is often an indicator the reverse idler gear is dying, not the linkage. And no, the 4-5 speed transaxles are not directly interchangeable. Suggest taking that transaxle apart, give it a complete going over. With a stock EFI engine, it's fine for endurance racing. If you double the power or more and increase the available traction and abusive driver, the odds of that transaxle failing goes up lots. Clutch might not be an adjustment, it could be a dying master or slave cylinder or both. Do pressure air purge the clutch first before anything else.

Treat your LeMons racer prep no different than any serious~high buck~ race car, do NOT be penny wise-pound foolish. This is a hard core endurance race car and need to be treated that way. Always keep in mind, Murphy is always waiting to have it's way.


Bernice

 

[Rupunzell]

Speaking of Porschephiles, during one of the track days we used for testing the LeMons car, we had a Gentleman driver with a Porsche GT-3 next to us. This is a bone stock GT-3, do not remember the specific year. After a few 40 minute track sessions, driver was wondering why the front tires on this GT-3 was rolling and peeling on the outside edge. Comment was, chassis is set up this way and could be a legal liability if Porsche did not set up the chassis-suspension this way..

Driver did not understand, he just understood his GT-3 will need at least two new front tires.


Bernice

 

[carl]

Reading "The Unfair Advantage" and Mark commented that when he started racing the first Porsche Carreras that all he had to do was baby the transmission and he would win as all the other Carrera drivers would beat the crap out of the Porsche trans and break before the end of the race.

 

[ricar]

This is why I like the buy any car rule. I can't remember what it is actually called, but the point is, any car on the track is for sale. In F500 I believe it was $5000. Any competitor, meaning you had to have a car in the race, could buy any competitors car after the race for $5000. So no one put that much into their cars. That was years ago and I know they are spending more than $10,000 on new cars so I hope that rule has changed to reflect but it did keep costs down. No one wanted to blow $20,000 on a car they could be forced to sell for 5.

 

[Rupunzell]

Real race cars are THE most abused motor vehicles around. Cost to purchase any real race car is just the tip of the "Berg". These cars are constant and never ending maintenance item, stuff gets busted all the time with replacement parts ranging from penny item that should have been more carefully considered before it was ever allowed on the car to exotic one of a kind part with a spare to be made individually per item (lost count of how many one-off items were made for the LeMons car via machine tools, weld up or ...).
Just keeping a race car up and running in decent race worthy condition is no simple task. Oh, all this needs a place to stay (storage) along with all the stuff associated with keeping a race car race worthy.

Race cars consume fuel, oil, grease, tires, wheels, brakes and LOTs more. Team need food, place to stay, and all the usual staying away from home stuff. Add to this cost of traveling to the track and back. Typical race car transporters consume significant amounts of fuel and more.

Add all this up, that $5,000 for the car is not the significant cost to go racing.


Bernice

This is why I like the buy any car rule. I can't remember what it is actually called, but the point is, any car on the track is for sale. In F500 I believe it was $5000. Any competitor, meaning you had to have a car in the race, could buy any competitors car after the race for $5000. So no one put that much into their cars. That was years ago and I know they are spending more than $10,000 on new cars so I hope that rule has changed to reflect but it did keep costs down. No one wanted to blow $20,000 on a car they could be forced to sell for 5.

 

[DanielForest]

This is why I like the buy any car rule. I can't remember what it is actually called, but the point is, any car on the track is for sale. In F500 I believe it was $5000. Any competitor, meaning you had to have a car in the race, could buy any competitors car after the race for $5000. So no one put that much into their cars. That was years ago and I know they are spending more than $10,000 on new cars so I hope that rule has changed to reflect but it did keep costs down. No one wanted to blow $20,000 on a car they could be forced to sell for 5.

I don't know if other series are doing that, but that is the rule in the Grassroots Motorsports $2000 Challenge.

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2000challenge.com

 

[rozap]

Wheel bearing back together. Thanks to @rx1900 for the retaining ring removal tool. Picture taken before I remembered that the spline has to go in once it's back on the control arm.

Replaced the transaxle fluid with the redline stuff. No more grind going into 3rd gear, though I'm taking it slow. Definitely seems better though, which was surprising.

Got my scirocco radiator. Reusing the stock fans.

Mounted using the existing brace, though I had to move it down several inches as the scirocco radiator is bigger. Used a coupler on the existing mount and added some bushings. It's also mounted on top with 4 bolts to the rib that runs across the front.

Didn't want to do the nice thing and tap a bleed valve in the stock X1/9 location, as it would be another port to fail, and this VW radiator is made of mostly plastic. So I'm using the existing bleed port on the radiator and punched a hole through to the headlight well.

Temperature problem definitely seems sorted. Doesn't creep up while idling, stays below 190. I am happy. Will do a longer test soon, once I can get the next problem fixed.

Went for a drive, and found the rear right brake caliper is dragging. Having a hard time pushing the piston all the way back into the caliper. It's dragging enough to where I can hear it, and it is generating some heat, which isn't good. I wonder if we screwed something up while rebuilding the caliper. I've tried spinning the piston (clockwise...) and pressing it with brake caliper piston tool. Not sure what to try next...

Once that's fixed, I'll be moving it out to a friend's shop to do the cage.

 

[kmead]

Wheel bearing back together. Thanks to @rx1900 for the retaining ring removal tool. Picture taken before I remembered that the spline has to go in once it's back on the control arm.
View attachment 34328

Replaced the transaxle fluid with the redline stuff. No more grind going into 3rd gear, though I'm taking it slow. Definitely seems better though, which was surprising.

View attachment 34329
Got my scirocco radiator. Reusing the stock fans.
View attachment 34330
Mounted using the existing brace, though I had to move it down several inches as the scirocco radiator is bigger. Used a coupler on the existing mount and added some bushings. It's also mounted on top with 4 bolts to the rib that runs across the front.
View attachment 34331
Didn't want to do the nice thing and tap a bleed valve in the stock X1/9 location, as it would be another port to fail, and this VW radiator is made of mostly plastic. So I'm using the existing bleed port on the radiator and punched a hole through to the headlight well.

Temperature problem definitely seems sorted. Doesn't creep up while idling, stays below 190. I am happy. Will do a longer test soon, once I can get the next problem fixed.

Went for a drive, and found the rear right brake caliper is dragging. Having a hard time pushing the piston all the way back into the caliper. It's dragging enough to where I can hear it, and it is generating some heat, which isn't good. I wonder if we screwed something up while rebuilding the caliper. I've tried spinning the piston (clockwise...) and pressing it with brake caliper piston tool. Not sure what to try next...

Once that's fixed, I'll be moving it out to a friend's shop to do the cage.

You can use front calipers in the rear which would allow you to use front pads (much thicker obviously) and if doing so using a proportioning valve which is easy for the rear as it is a single pipe. Just another approach (and more money).

Much less likely to suffer problems due to a rarely used mechanism.

 

[Rupunzell]

Picture taken before I remembered that the spline has to go in once it's back on the control arm.
~Torque the axle nut to spec with the car on the ground, use blue loctite to make sure it does NOT come loose. If that axle nut comes loose, catastrophic event to follow.

Replaced the transaxle fluid with the redline stuff. No more grind going into 3rd gear, though I'm taking it slow. Definitely seems better though, which was surprising.
~Good, this could mean the synchro is sort of ok, the great challenge is to get drivers to NOT bash the syncros during a LeMons race.
All drivers must understand this event goes on for hours and hours, one second of thrill shifting can cause a destroyed synchro, beginning and progressing of serious trouble.

Got my scirocco radiator. Reusing the stock fans.
Mounted using the existing brace, though I had to move it down several inches as the scirocco radiator is bigger. Used a coupler on the existing mount and added some bushings. It's also mounted on top with 4 bolts to the rib that runs across the front.
~Good.

Didn't want to do the nice thing and tap a bleed valve in the stock X1/9 location, as it would be another port to fail, and this VW radiator is made of mostly plastic. So I'm using the existing bleed port on the radiator and punched a hole through to the headlight well.

~Don't do this.. It will result is problems later as this is a "Penny pound foolish". How will the system air purge with a bolt on the end of a hose.. that is precisely the kind of hose clamp NOT to USE. they do NOT seal properly and extrude the hose if clamped tight. Add to this, threads on the bolt can leak. Take the time and resources required to make the air purge fitting identical to the OEM stock design (Air purge fitting can go on to the end of this hose, basically a valve), test it and make absolute sure it all works properly. Understand any tiny item in the cooling system that might fail can ruin the entire event, waste a LOT of time spent, resources spent and LOTs more... or where the $.25 part cost $10,000 when it failed.

Temperature problem definitely seems sorted. Doesn't creep up while idling, stays below 190. I am happy. Will do a longer test soon, once I can get the next problem fixed.
~Until any seemingly tiny item in the cooling system fails, game over.

~Remove the stock coolant drain valve on the block. If that valve comes loose, it will install dump ALL the coolant, causing instant over heating. This is what happened first LeMons race causing a head gasket failure.~

Went for a drive, and found the rear right brake caliper is dragging. Having a ard time pushing the piston all the way back into the caliper. It's dragging enough to where I can hear it, and it is generating some heat, which isn't good. I wonder if we screwed something up while rebuilding the caliper. I've tried spinning the piston (clockwise...) and pressing it with brake caliper piston tool. Not sure what to try next...

~Don't use the stock rear calipers for track events like this. The front brake pads will go beyond fried. Remove the stock rear calipers, parking brake cable and all. Then install a set of front calipers in the rear. This is IMPORTANT. Not only does this improve brake balance for track conditions, it goes a long way to prevent the front brakes from becoming well roasted. If you're driving the car properly on track, the brakes will be used REALLY hard, far more than under any typical street condition. What kind of brake pads will be used? Are the bake hoses stock? If yes they must be replaced with teflon-metal braid outer brake hose.

~There is zero need for parking brakes on a race car. Remove all items and parts related to the parking brakes.

Once that's fixed, I'll be moving it out to a friend's shop to do the cage.
~Idea-plans for the cage?


Bernice

 

[gene cooley]

Reading "The Unfair Advantage" and Mark commented that when he started racing the first Porsche Carreras that all he had to do was baby the transmission and he would win as all the other Carrera drivers would beat the crap out of the Porsche trans and break before the end of the race.

The instructions for the VW based Hewland Mk 8 in our Tui Super Vee tell you to shift "foot to the floor, dab the clutch, pull".
That's what I do.

 

[Rupunzell]

Typical for a dog drive gear box. Can produce quick shifts when properly done. The really good drivers will not digest dog rings as they shift gears.

Bernice

The instructions for the VW based Hewland Mk 8 in our Tui Super Vee tell you to shift "foot to the floor, dab the clutch, pull".
That's what I do.

 

[rozap]

Thanks for the advice everyone. The bolt in the bleed hose is temporary until I can get something done on the lathe.

Pads are new and are these ones
Lines (and master cylinder and all caliper seals) are new and are OE.

Sounds like front calipers are the way to go here. I'll track some down. No need to change the brake carriers? Or are those different front to rear?

Plans for the cage are to more or less copy another member who has been running an X19 for the last year. I think his username is on here is @TheTallOne. He sent me some pictures, so we'll be going off of that with some adjustments due to driver height and seat differences. The rules specify everything well.