4x98 to 4x100 hub mod...

wrxdrew

1300cc's of Angry Bees
adapters Vs. modding the hubs Vs. anything else...

has anybody got 4x100 on their X? How did you accomplish it?

I've seen the cheeseball adapters on ebay, and I've heard stories of guys drilling their stoke hubs to accept 4x100 45 degrees to their 4x98 pattern (although the idea of removing meat from the wheel hubs and having extra holes for stress cracks makes me cringe)

I also have a friend that works in a machine shop and is marvelous at reverse engineering other peoples work. i.e. One of my dirtbike buddys bought $500 Billet tripple clamps for his bike and my machinist friend pulled out some spare billet and made replica tripple clamps for all the riding buddys. (no brand name, warrentys or insurence included)

I'm thinking i might be able to send him some stock hubs and have him replicate them in 4x100. Is that logical, or completely insane?
 
if you get them recreated in a 4x100 pcd, you will need to modify the rotors as well, ive seen wobble bolts where it has a little bit of play, however i would not recommend this for lugcentric wheels, as you would need to get it perfectly centered otherwise you will get vibration
 
Do I have to speak to your wife?

This kinda thing belongs in the same category as your "1500 and/or 1100 Head" swap...

If you want to be able to change out wheels all the time and want a HUGE selection, then going to a 4 x 110 or 4 x100 bolt pattern would be a great idea. Secondly... one might as well go to a 15 inch rim to gain a vast-er tire selection as well... Going any larger... 16s, 18s, etc. really looks kinda ridulous on an X (IMHO), as the 15 inchers KINDA compare to putting 18s on a Civic.

One caveat though... is that the MOST available wheels today are made for FWD vehicles in these sizes... so finding ones you like with the correct backspacing and offsets are not that easy... that is if you were gonna go to a straight bolt-on via redrilling the hubs and rotors.

BUT... if you go to the KILLER adapters... they will usually offset the wheels enough so that FWD wheels will indeed fit nicely and give you the availability you want. They also allow you to swap and re-sell them quite easily... and you can always go back to the stockers anytime you want. This would be MY preference.

As for the adapters FAILING... in my 50+ years of driving "assertively" on the street, I've never had a failure and that was with some extremely REVERSED rims we usea run in the 60s... But I never did any formal track racing with or without them...

As for a REPUTABLE fabricator... I know of one personally that many other enthusiasts and rodders use... and that is the LUGNUT KING... Ron Gonzalez (lugnutking.com) in Fontana CA, 909-376-8011. His prices, quality and availability are all in our favor.

Now... about re-painting YOUR CD91s for 5 bucks...
 
The green K20z1(Acura RSX Type S) X that Midwest built has 15's...

...I had always thought 15's looked too big...until I saw this car firsthand. I think it looks perfect. From what I understand, to get the proper fit, they had to use coilovers.
k20z1.jpg

http://www.midwest-x19.com/FiatX19Acura_files/frame.htm
 
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The problem with redrilling the hubs is you need 4 new wheel bearings.
If I had my hubs out anyway, I would get them redrilled und elongate the holes in the rotors a little. This way, you are flexible.
At least over here, there are plenty of RWD offset 4x100 wheels available. Rabbits, Opels etc, all have a simliar offset to Fiats and lots of used wheels are available. The center hole is smaller though and needs to be enlarged slightly, or generic wheels need to be used that use a plastic hub-centric insert (Revo, Compomotive, and many others are done that way). I would expect that eBay USA offers lots of wheels meant for Rabbits.

If you are worried about the additional 4 holes, talk to an engineer about it. I don't think the addl holes make any difference, but this is not my area of expertise.
 
Look at the hub.

The 98mm bolt pattern is almost at the edge of the hub now. Moving another 1mm out leaves nothing on the edge of the hub.

Personally I would use a spacer adapter like Tony mentioned above in his post.

TonyK.

Grimsby Ontario Canada.
 
Question

"BUT... if you go to the KILLER adapters... "

What does this mean Tony? Is this a brand or simply implying superior functionality?
 
adapters Vs. modding the hubs Vs. anything else...

has anybody got 4x100 on their X? How did you accomplish it?

I've seen the cheeseball adapters on ebay, and I've heard stories of guys drilling their stoke hubs to accept 4x100 45 degrees to their 4x98 pattern (although the idea of removing meat from the wheel hubs and having extra holes for stress cracks makes me cringe)

I also have a friend that works in a machine shop and is marvelous at reverse engineering other peoples work. i.e. One of my dirtbike buddys bought $500 Billet tripple clamps for his bike and my machinist friend pulled out some spare billet and made replica tripple clamps for all the riding buddys. (no brand name, warrentys or insurence included)

I'm thinking i might be able to send him some stock hubs and have him replicate them in 4x100. Is that logical, or completely insane?

if your 4x100 wheels are Fiat hub centering...
Bolt em on, tighten down the bolts!
I have driven many tens of thousands of miles like this, and even took the car racing. Alot...
 
question...

if I want to widen the stance of my car, should I get wheel spacers?
I ride on a 13x5 with 185 tires. Would adding an inch look good?
I plan to MAYBE add fender flares one day... who knows...

Are they just plug and play? do I need anything else to install?

Thanks
 
OK...

Spacers...

First you will need LONGER Studs and new LugNUTS to REPLACE your factory LugBOLTS.

Many sources, but the lugnutking.com is one I know of off the top of my head. These guys can also supply almost ANY spacer or ADAPTER you may want or dream up... even converting to 5 bolt patterns. There prices are usually reasonable and sometimes can be negotiated also.

Attached are fotos of my car with THREE stock wheel spacers per wheel, longer studs and the proper lugnuts for this type of "mag" wheel. (These wheels are Ansen's at 5.5 x 13J with standard offset and backspacing as any stock steel wheel for a '79.)

I believe these spacers add up to almost a full inch wider overall, but tires tend to do even more. 185/60s up front and 205/60s in the rear... I have run 175/50s up front, and may do that again with 215/50s in the rear. The 5.5 inch wheel is getting to be a bit narrow for these tire combos, but with my limited driving, lack of rotation capibility, and love of the "look", works just fine for me.

If you were to go with ADAPTERS, they usually add a MINIMUM of 2 inches, probably around 3 inches of width overall, and in doing so, it would be best to convert to a 4 x 100 or 4 x 110 bolt pattern, and then the RWD and FWD wheel availability is almost unlimited, right up to 18 inchers! (Anything over 15 is a bit much, IMHO...)

Lastly, there are some that will say that spacers and/or adapters are dangerous and should NEVER be used... and that could be true, especially in a racing environment... But I've been running this car this way for over ten years, and fairly ASSERTIVELY through the canyons, with never an incident.

THE BEST THING to do though, is spend the money on the offsets and sizes you want for the tires and widths you want. I'm just offering some alternatives...

Hope this helps with your decision.

DSCN1483.jpg


BTsREAR2008.jpg


VetteBT.jpg
 
thanks

Thank you for the reply
I've contacted lugnutking and the quote I received was reasonable indeed.
Now I would like to keep the stock wheels for now (paint is expensive enough !) but widen the stance. I have sumis 185-60 right now. I am thinking about 2" spacers... can I go wider? how much and I don't want to modify the fenders :)

thanks again!
 
noted you got dibs

I don't plan on selling them soon though...I may try getting them re-trued and buffed. we'll see how it looks with spacers.
 
Dany...

I don't know...

You are going to have to measure for yourself. You said STOCK wheels, but I'm not sure what width, etc. you currently have. You should be able to measure your own tires and wheels and figure it out.

As far as SPACERS go... I'm not too excited about using a 2" SPACER and some kind of extra long stud. If you were to use a 2" ADAPTER where it bolts securely to the hub... and then there are studs of a reasonable length to bolt the wheel to, that would be my preference.

If you look closely at the photos I sent... I believe the spacers I have installed have increased the width about 3/4" on each side... and then there are the wider tires on the rear (205/60). The same 3/4" (three Fiat) spacers are on the front with 185/60s. Off the top of my head, 2" spacers OR adapters and a stock wheel would stick them out way beyond the fender lip.

Most folks that have used 2" adapters have converted to 4x100 patterns AND have installed FWD (front wheel drive) negative offset wheels.

Rudy Mortero's is a prime example...

011.jpg


... and I think they look and WORK pretty good. I believe these are 14 inch rims, and he ONCE had larger tires in the rear, but went back to equal sizes all around. I prefer Big 'n Littles... he doesn't.

Hope this is clear... let me know if I need to explain more...
 
thanks

Off the top of my head, 2" spacers OR adapters and a stock wheel would stick them out way beyond the fender lip.

So has this been tested? Maybe 1.5" adapters but that keep the same bolt pattern? If that's even possible...

I just don't have the $$ for new wheels and tires. I JUST mounted my sumis 2 months ago! well if all goes according to plan I am taking the ReX to paint today and she'll come back a Giallex in 2-3 weeks. That will give me time to find a good car electrician AND figure out my next wheel step.
 
so I will get a quote from

lugnutking
Raul is going to quote the parts + shipping for 2 adapters.
Now what I asked is a 2" "adapter" that keeps the 4x98 config for now. What they send is a hubcentric adapter with new studs and nuts. Just like for 4x100 but keeping the same bolt pattern. If I ever sell my wheels i'll just include those...

I will use them on the back of the car for now and see how it looks!
 
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How is lugnutking to deal with? I emailed them to see if they can make spacers to center my Keystones on the Fiat hubs. I don't like the vibration I'm getting over 65mph. It wasn't there with the stock rims, so I'm assuming it's due to the lug-centric nature of the wheels.
 
Hussein... there are several possibilies...

... and I have lived out several... when it comes to vibration.

1. Loosen and then re-torque your lugs... insuring the wheel is fitted correctly, and use a TORQUE wrench! I tighten mine to 60 lbs each, and evenly.

2. Spin each wheel afterwards, insure there is little to no run-out, both horizontally and vertically.

3. Flat spotted tires... vibration goes away when heated... or permanent from locking them up. Inspect each carefully.

As far as Mr. Gonzalez goes... I've seen him around for years at local meets and the big Daddy meets, like Pomona. He does a bang-up business and if he didn't, he would not have been around all these years. (I've not seen any others like him either...)

I once quizzed him about the 12 x 1.25 pitched Fiat lugs and asked if he had any with him... and he INSISTED on finding them in his big truck... which he did! He came up with the lug NUTS and asked if I wanted them for MAGS or tapered shoulders for steel wheels... and I didn't have the heart to ask him to search for the lug BOLTS. He shows them all on his site...

You have to judge him for yourself... but 50% of the interaction will be up to you.
 
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