<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]'80 X charging system quirk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 13 1999 at 6:10 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT> Mac </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Last night I was engaging in some 'spirited driving' while enroute from Olympia to Seattle. All day the little Veglia voltmeter on the dash had been reading just a hair above middle, as it should, indicating about 13.5 volts. The little ALT light never glowed, not even dimly.
Somewhere between Olympia and Seattle, all that changed. Just past Tacoma, I noticed the little ALT light was glowing dimly and the voltmeter needle was just hovering just above the bottom white block on the gauge - waay too low!
I have often been told these gauges are not properly wired from the factory, so a while ago on the advice of James Seabolt, I rewired the voltmeter straight to the 'key-on' hotwire. Just for added peace of mind I even added a second groundwire although that was probably not necessary. Just to be triple certain (can you tell I'm a Fiat owner?
I even cross-checked the meter readings with a multimeter and verified the Veglia's honesty...
Instead of 13.5ish volts while running the needle shows now about the same 11.5ish as when the car's off. AND the (usually off) ALT light is glowing dimly. It dims as RPM increases and gets brighter at idle, full on with engine off.
I checked the belt and it was a little loose (but not much). I tightened it anyway and it had no effect on charging. Just in case a brush in the alt. got stuck (don't laugh - it has happened to me before) I smacked the alt. body with a hammer a couple of times. Still no changes.
Thus my question: All indications that I see are pointing to the Alternator (the Bosch type with built-in regulator) or the Voltage regulator itself. Since I don't have a garage currently (when parked on the street, even pulling the alternator becomes a time-consuming event) I would like to know wether it seems my troubleshooting is sound... before I bust out the jackstands and start pulling it. Any words of wisdom here folks? Peace, -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "4";n54_em = n54_em + "5";n54_em = n54_em + "7";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("John"); // --> </SCRIPT>John <NOSCRIPT> John </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->similar experience . .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 15 1999, 10:09 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->mac,
I had a similar set of symptoms last winter with my '87 X, but didn't attend to it quickly enough
and had the car die on me at a traffic light,
accompanied by the smell of burnt wiring -
Had it towed to my mechanic (who sold me my first
X). He diagnosed it as a short caused by wiring
rubbing inside the alternator cover (the part that screws on and holds the air duct) and was able to trim the wire and get the alternator
working again. It's been charging like a champ
ever since.
I don't know how common this syndrome is, but
it shouldn't be too hard to check for - you could
unscrew the cover working through the rear trunk
access hatch without pulling the alternator itself
(assuming yours is a non-AC model). Hope this is
helpful . .
Good luck,
John<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good suggestion<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 15 1999, 10:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wouldn't have thought of that. So far I have not had a chance to get to it. The X is parked and awaiting the first chance for me to examine it. I sat and thought it over, and am (so far) betting that the brushes on the voltage regulator are worn out. I have the new part here and am going to try & get in there tomorrow to investigate. Thanks for the tip, too! I will certainly pay extra attention to the wire ends now. Will report back with my findings when I get that access panel off... -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Bittersweet discovery<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 12:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, yesterday I finally had the opportunity to get greasy with the '80 X1/9
However, in the process of solving one problem, I have discovered another!
People often don't believe me when I tell them I bought this car for $100 at an abandoned vehicle auction, because it is cosmetically very pretty, and the interior is nearly immaculate. However when I found it the car was mechanically 'toast' an no one there wanted it but me, thus the price! Anyway, I bring this up to illustrate the fact that the Previous Owners (aka "POs") have really been neglectful to her: back to the story...
For the first time in my ownership I have removed all the panels in the rear trunk (in the process of accessing the alternator). When I bought the car, I was pretty thorough about examining the critical structural areas for rust, but did NOT examine less-critical areas at all. For the price I wasn't going to get too picky! But yesterday when I went to remove the access panel & false floor I made a rather gruesome discovery: RUST! *;p UGH!!
With all these panels and insulation removed, the REAL floor panel of the trunk lay exposed, probably for the first time since new! It would appear that some neglectful PO had spent a good long time driving around with the trunklid unlatched, as water had apparently collected under the false floor long enough to rust out the entire forward edge of the real one. Dang! $#!%!!
I did the 'screwdriver test' (poke the stuff) and it poked right through the floor and into the exhaust compartment. Aaughh!~ Oh well, now I have a new project. Back to the current one though:
I got the panels out and removed the backing plate from the alternator. I removed the voltage regulator and as soon as I pulled it out, one of the brushes went SPROINNG and shot past my head, over my shoulder and into the neighbor's yard! Yep, so I guess THAT'S a problem
Actually the brushes still looked as if they still had some length to them but the issue was that one of the soldered wires from brush to regulator had broken off, causing only momentary/partial contact - which explains the 'ALT' light's changing in intensity etc. I bolted in the new regulator (BTW a big "Thank You" goes to Robin Bee @ Performance Motors in Lynnwood, Wa. for getting me that part on about 5 seconds notice!) and started the car. Problem solved! She's charging like new.
I did notice however that the worn alternator wires, as was mentioned in the previous post, must have happened to this car at one point in its life: Some PO has gouged out and enlarged the wire exit hole in that backing plate, indicating that this must have been a problem to them at some point in the past. They must also have replaced the wires, as the insulation on these looks great.
So Voila! The charging mystery is solved... and at least that crappy rusted out floor panel in the trunk shouldn't be too awful to fix. Thank God it's just a panel and not a load-bearing member! I suppose it's best I discovered it NOW instead of LATER! `whew'! -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in rear trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yo Mac,
I think that is a common problem. Once some moisture gets in there, the insulation material in ther acts like a sponge and holds it forever. The immense heat does the rest in accelerating the rusting process.
You know the genereal condition of my car. Not bad for a 25 year old car. Nevertheless,
I cut out the complete trunk floor last weekend except for a 1/2" flange all around it to attach new sheetmetal to.
It did make it much easier to design the new exhaust system this way though
I hope you feel better now since your problem sounds much less bad than mine.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yepyup<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yeah, It is a relatively common rusty spot, but easily preventable if the owner of the car would take care not to let it get wet under there (ie: no cruising in the rain with the trunklid unlatched) or at least to pull the panel occasionally and clean it out... but perhaps I was not entirely clear on my earlier statement. The rust has not eaten the entire sheet, mostly the forward edge. HOWEVER, I will probably do just exactly what you did - replace the entire panel. The forward edge even let the rust climb up onto the access panel itself, so I will be replacing that also. In the meantime I have no rear trunk, and the engine is getting mucho extra airflow -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mark Plaia[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in the trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 11:14 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac,
Rust at that spot in the trunk is VERY common, even for people who keep the trunk lid latched. Like me. There are numerous locations where water can ingress and as Ulix notes, the insulation makes it worse by never, ever drying out. Just fix it and move on. I have three times now, though no poke throughs yet.
MP<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Mac[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well dangitall you guys!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 1:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Now you've gone and made me face the ugly truth! ;p
It was so much easier just to blame the PO ;o
Yeah, I know you're right, it happens. I still felt vindicated to blame the PO though, as there are many other telltale signs of heavy past abuses, such as the entire passenger floorboard being crushed upward into the cabin - including one of the radiator pipes! No one's going to convince me THAT was a common fault! This car is very pretty but the PO really did hammer it which just chaps my hide. Ahh, but then again, had they taken proper care of the thing I would never have found it there at auction, so in that respect I'm grateful.
Uh-huh, the rust. I am going to cut all the rusty stuff out completely, and go from there. Who knows, maybe I might do some custom exhaust work while the panels are out. You still got that '74 exhaust manifold for me Mark? -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Stu Brennan"); // --> </SCRIPT>Stu Brennan <NOSCRIPT> Stu Brennan </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in the trunk.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 2:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->When you replace the trunk panel you might want to consider using an old washing machine. The steel is heavy duty and the paint and galvanizing should prevent rust for a few years anyway. This provides a cheap,easy and long lasting fix. My 2c worth. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->washing machine<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 3:38 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu said:
When you replace the trunk panel you might want to consider using an old washing machine.
Hmm, I don't know. I think a washing machine in the trunk would detract from the looks of the italian sportscar shape.
Maybe if you painted it body color?
Ulix (appliance-free trunk)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "a"; document.write("Stu Brennan"); // --> </SCRIPT>Stu Brennan <NOSCRIPT> Stu Brennan </NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Washing machine<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 2:48 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Silly you make it small enough so you can close the trunk lid. My car gets 2 pair of pants and 3 shirts to the gallon. The only problem is that when I hit a puddle I leave a pile of bubbles for the car behind. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 13 1999 at 6:10 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "x";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "9";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Mac"); // --> </SCRIPT>Mac <NOSCRIPT> Mac </NOSCRIPT> [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Last night I was engaging in some 'spirited driving' while enroute from Olympia to Seattle. All day the little Veglia voltmeter on the dash had been reading just a hair above middle, as it should, indicating about 13.5 volts. The little ALT light never glowed, not even dimly.
Somewhere between Olympia and Seattle, all that changed. Just past Tacoma, I noticed the little ALT light was glowing dimly and the voltmeter needle was just hovering just above the bottom white block on the gauge - waay too low!
I have often been told these gauges are not properly wired from the factory, so a while ago on the advice of James Seabolt, I rewired the voltmeter straight to the 'key-on' hotwire. Just for added peace of mind I even added a second groundwire although that was probably not necessary. Just to be triple certain (can you tell I'm a Fiat owner?
I even cross-checked the meter readings with a multimeter and verified the Veglia's honesty...Instead of 13.5ish volts while running the needle shows now about the same 11.5ish as when the car's off. AND the (usually off) ALT light is glowing dimly. It dims as RPM increases and gets brighter at idle, full on with engine off.
I checked the belt and it was a little loose (but not much). I tightened it anyway and it had no effect on charging. Just in case a brush in the alt. got stuck (don't laugh - it has happened to me before) I smacked the alt. body with a hammer a couple of times. Still no changes.
Thus my question: All indications that I see are pointing to the Alternator (the Bosch type with built-in regulator) or the Voltage regulator itself. Since I don't have a garage currently (when parked on the street, even pulling the alternator becomes a time-consuming event) I would like to know wether it seems my troubleshooting is sound... before I bust out the jackstands and start pulling it. Any words of wisdom here folks? Peace, -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->similar experience . .<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 15 1999, 10:09 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->mac,
I had a similar set of symptoms last winter with my '87 X, but didn't attend to it quickly enough
and had the car die on me at a traffic light,
accompanied by the smell of burnt wiring -
Had it towed to my mechanic (who sold me my first
X). He diagnosed it as a short caused by wiring
rubbing inside the alternator cover (the part that screws on and holds the air duct) and was able to trim the wire and get the alternator
working again. It's been charging like a champ
ever since.
I don't know how common this syndrome is, but
it shouldn't be too hard to check for - you could
unscrew the cover working through the rear trunk
access hatch without pulling the alternator itself
(assuming yours is a non-AC model). Hope this is
helpful . .
Good luck,
John<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good suggestion<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 15 1999, 10:30 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wouldn't have thought of that. So far I have not had a chance to get to it. The X is parked and awaiting the first chance for me to examine it. I sat and thought it over, and am (so far) betting that the brushes on the voltage regulator are worn out. I have the new part here and am going to try & get in there tomorrow to investigate. Thanks for the tip, too! I will certainly pay extra attention to the wire ends now. Will report back with my findings when I get that access panel off... -Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Bittersweet discovery<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 12:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, yesterday I finally had the opportunity to get greasy with the '80 X1/9
However, in the process of solving one problem, I have discovered another!
People often don't believe me when I tell them I bought this car for $100 at an abandoned vehicle auction, because it is cosmetically very pretty, and the interior is nearly immaculate. However when I found it the car was mechanically 'toast' an no one there wanted it but me, thus the price! Anyway, I bring this up to illustrate the fact that the Previous Owners (aka "POs") have really been neglectful to her: back to the story...
For the first time in my ownership I have removed all the panels in the rear trunk (in the process of accessing the alternator). When I bought the car, I was pretty thorough about examining the critical structural areas for rust, but did NOT examine less-critical areas at all. For the price I wasn't going to get too picky! But yesterday when I went to remove the access panel & false floor I made a rather gruesome discovery: RUST! *;p UGH!!
With all these panels and insulation removed, the REAL floor panel of the trunk lay exposed, probably for the first time since new! It would appear that some neglectful PO had spent a good long time driving around with the trunklid unlatched, as water had apparently collected under the false floor long enough to rust out the entire forward edge of the real one. Dang! $#!%!!
I did the 'screwdriver test' (poke the stuff) and it poked right through the floor and into the exhaust compartment. Aaughh!~ Oh well, now I have a new project. Back to the current one though:
I got the panels out and removed the backing plate from the alternator. I removed the voltage regulator and as soon as I pulled it out, one of the brushes went SPROINNG and shot past my head, over my shoulder and into the neighbor's yard! Yep, so I guess THAT'S a problem
Actually the brushes still looked as if they still had some length to them but the issue was that one of the soldered wires from brush to regulator had broken off, causing only momentary/partial contact - which explains the 'ALT' light's changing in intensity etc. I bolted in the new regulator (BTW a big "Thank You" goes to Robin Bee @ Performance Motors in Lynnwood, Wa. for getting me that part on about 5 seconds notice!) and started the car. Problem solved! She's charging like new.
I did notice however that the worn alternator wires, as was mentioned in the previous post, must have happened to this car at one point in its life: Some PO has gouged out and enlarged the wire exit hole in that backing plate, indicating that this must have been a problem to them at some point in the past. They must also have replaced the wires, as the insulation on these looks great.
So Voila! The charging mystery is solved... and at least that crappy rusted out floor panel in the trunk shouldn't be too awful to fix. Thank God it's just a panel and not a load-bearing member! I suppose it's best I discovered it NOW instead of LATER! `whew'! -Mac.
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in rear trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yo Mac,
I think that is a common problem. Once some moisture gets in there, the insulation material in ther acts like a sponge and holds it forever. The immense heat does the rest in accelerating the rusting process.
You know the genereal condition of my car. Not bad for a 25 year old car. Nevertheless,
I cut out the complete trunk floor last weekend except for a 1/2" flange all around it to attach new sheetmetal to.
It did make it much easier to design the new exhaust system this way though
I hope you feel better now since your problem sounds much less bad than mine.
Ulix
Yellow 74<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yepyup<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 18 1999, 4:29 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yeah, It is a relatively common rusty spot, but easily preventable if the owner of the car would take care not to let it get wet under there (ie: no cruising in the rain with the trunklid unlatched) or at least to pull the panel occasionally and clean it out... but perhaps I was not entirely clear on my earlier statement. The rust has not eaten the entire sheet, mostly the forward edge. HOWEVER, I will probably do just exactly what you did - replace the entire panel. The forward edge even let the rust climb up onto the access panel itself, so I will be replacing that also. In the meantime I have no rear trunk, and the engine is getting mucho extra airflow
-Mac.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in the trunk<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 11:14 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Mac,
Rust at that spot in the trunk is VERY common, even for people who keep the trunk lid latched. Like me. There are numerous locations where water can ingress and as Ulix notes, the insulation makes it worse by never, ever drying out. Just fix it and move on. I have three times now, though no poke throughs yet.
MP<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well dangitall you guys!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 20 1999, 1:03 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Now you've gone and made me face the ugly truth! ;p
It was so much easier just to blame the PO ;o
Yeah, I know you're right, it happens. I still felt vindicated to blame the PO though, as there are many other telltale signs of heavy past abuses, such as the entire passenger floorboard being crushed upward into the cabin - including one of the radiator pipes! No one's going to convince me THAT was a common fault! This car is very pretty but the PO really did hammer it which just chaps my hide. Ahh, but then again, had they taken proper care of the thing I would never have found it there at auction, so in that respect I'm grateful.
Uh-huh, the rust. I am going to cut all the rusty stuff out completely, and go from there. Who knows, maybe I might do some custom exhaust work while the panels are out. You still got that '74 exhaust manifold for me Mark? -Mac.
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rust in the trunk.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 2:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->When you replace the trunk panel you might want to consider using an old washing machine. The steel is heavy duty and the paint and galvanizing should prevent rust for a few years anyway. This provides a cheap,easy and long lasting fix. My 2c worth. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->washing machine<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 23 1999, 3:38 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Stu said:
When you replace the trunk panel you might want to consider using an old washing machine.
Hmm, I don't know. I think a washing machine in the trunk would detract from the looks of the italian sportscar shape.
Maybe if you painted it body color?
Ulix (appliance-free trunk)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Washing machine<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]June 24 1999, 2:48 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 150px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Silly you make it small enough so you can close the trunk lid. My car gets 2 pair of pants and 3 shirts to the gallon. The only problem is that when I hit a puddle I leave a pile of bubbles for the car behind. Stu<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
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