850 Spider tail lights, à la Ferrari

[Matt Zerega]

As my 850 Spider build continues, I've grown fixated on the tail lights. I've always loved the 850 Spider but, I've always hated the tail lights. The fact they were used on the Miura doesn't make me feel any better..... I've always thought the factory lights should look more like the Ferraris from the same era - round. Anyway... fixation turned into a bunch of time with a caliper, CAD software and an old tail light assembly. Here's what I've got thus far. The inner most light will be a white LED with clear lens. The middle one will have a red lens and the outer most LED will be amber. All will be 63.5 mm in diameter. I'll 3D print the prototype with PLA filament.

I'm interested in what Fiat enthusiasts think of this design. Flame on

 

[dnudelman]

I think the covered headlight mod would be my priority

 

[Matt Zerega]

I think the covered headlight mod would be my priority

I hear you. That's on my to-do list but it's a lot more involved - lots of compound curves and such. Like this project, the headlight modification will be a significant variation from the factory design i.e., covered and more closely matching the body line..but not a replica of factory parts.

 

[Jeff Stich]

Meh. Reminds me of the boy-racer taillight stuff you'd find at Pep Boys, AutoZone, etc. for '90's-'00's Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, etc. cars.

I've been waiting for a modern Dodge Challenger to show up in my local junkyards to see if retrofitting its taillights to the 850 Spider would be feasible. Very similar shape overall.

 

[dnudelman]

I bet you could sell more than a handful replica covered headlights

 

[Frank L. Di Gioia]

I bet you could sell more than a handful replica covered headlights

I checked with a local glass shop about duplicating the original '66-67 flush glass headlights in plexiglass or lexon. After making the mold they were , if memory serves, over $50 each PLUS the $500 to make the mold form. This was before the plexiglass market exploded with Covid barriers. I doubt a shop would bother to bid now.

 

[dnudelman]

Maybe he could 3d print or use CAM. Maker spaces are doing interesting things in very small quantities.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

As my 850 Spider build continues, I've grown fixated on the tail lights. I've always loved the 850 Spider but, I've always hated the tail lights. The fact they were used on the Miura doesn't make me feel any better..... I've always thought the factory lights should look more like the Ferraris from the same era - round. Anyway... fixation turned into a bunch of time with a caliper, CAD software and an old tail light assembly. Here's what I've got thus far. The inner most light will be a white LED with clear lens. The middle one will have a red lens and the outer most LED will be amber. All will be 63.5 mm in diameter. I'll 3D print the prototype with PLA filament.

I'm interested in what Fiat enthusiasts think of this design. Flame on
View attachment 62667

I love modified lights. Actually I love modified anything.

Do you have a means to show how they will look on the car?

 

[Dave Bassett]

To me, the factory tail lights are more in keeping with the original slick design. The mandated changes such as the raised headlights, elaborate bumpers, reflectors bolted onto the rear all detract. However, a covered headlight modification would be a high priority to me.

 

[twincam69]

I wonder if early 2000s Mini Cooper headlights would fit?

Headlight Driving Head light Headlamp Driver Left Side Hand for Mini Cooper | eBay

2002-2004 Cooper (submodel: Base, S). Notes Without headlight washer Assembly With bulb(s). Location : Left. Location Left. Choose from assemblies with or without bulbs. Compatible with the following vehicles.

www.ebay.com

 

[dnudelman]

I wonder if early 2000s Mini Cooper headlights would fit?

Headlight Driving Head light Headlamp Driver Left Side Hand for Mini Cooper | eBay

2002-2004 Cooper (submodel: Base, S). Notes Without headlight washer Assembly With bulb(s). Location : Left. Location Left. Choose from assemblies with or without bulbs. Compatible with the following vehicles.

www.ebay.com

Thousands of Miura owners are asking the same thing. Maybe you could find them on Amazon. Free returns!

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I wonder if early 2000s Mini Cooper headlights would fit?

Headlight Driving Head light Headlamp Driver Left Side Hand for Mini Cooper | eBay

2002-2004 Cooper (submodel: Base, S). Notes Without headlight washer Assembly With bulb(s). Location : Left. Location Left. Choose from assemblies with or without bulbs. Compatible with the following vehicles.

www.ebay.com

Off the top of my head I think the mounting angle / slope is too different, but it would be worth looking into. Same for early VW/Porsche or older Mercedes headlights:

 

[kmead]

As my 850 Spider build continues, I've grown fixated on the tail lights. I've always loved the 850 Spider but, I've always hated the tail lights. The fact they were used on the Miura doesn't make me feel any better..... I've always thought the factory lights should look more like the Ferraris from the same era - round. Anyway... fixation turned into a bunch of time with a caliper, CAD software and an old tail light assembly. Here's what I've got thus far. The inner most light will be a white LED with clear lens. The middle one will have a red lens and the outer most LED will be amber. All will be 63.5 mm in diameter. I'll 3D print the prototype with PLA filament.

I'm interested in what Fiat enthusiasts think of this design. Flame on
View attachment 62667

I would suggest emphasizing the lenses more and depressing the gray surround so the round lenses protrude. I would also suggest painting the gray surround in body color.

 

[Matt Zerega]

I wonder if early 2000s Mini Cooper headlights would fit?

Headlight Driving Head light Headlamp Driver Left Side Hand for Mini Cooper | eBay

2002-2004 Cooper (submodel: Base, S). Notes Without headlight washer Assembly With bulb(s). Location : Left. Location Left. Choose from assemblies with or without bulbs. Compatible with the following vehicles.

www.ebay.com

Funny you mention the Mini R50-53. I've looked into these headlights and it looks like there's about a 5-deg. difference in face angle of the lens as compared to the Fiat factory lens. They might work. After all my engine, fuel system, cooling system and brake system modifications are done... I'll use a LiDAR depth camera to 3D-scan the front of my '69 Spider and the front of an '02-'06 Mini. With those images, I'll determine feasibility of melding the Fiat fender with the Mini headlight and/or a surgical extraction of the Mini's hood/fender sheet metal.

 

[Matt Zerega]

Meh. Reminds me of the boy-racer taillight stuff you'd find at Pep Boys, AutoZone, etc. for '90's-'00's Honda, Toyota, Mitsubishi, Subaru, etc. cars.

I've been waiting for a modern Dodge Challenger to show up in my local junkyards to see if retrofitting its taillights to the 850 Spider would be feasible. Very similar shape overall.

I appreciate the comment, Jeff. With that said, my mission is to positively change minds (e.g., yours)...responding to the 'flat' CAD renderings. I think the physical implementations of these new tail light assemblies are going to look good on the car. Proof will be in the pudding. P.S. I agree with kmead - housings will be painted body color. Unfortunately, because of the physical shape of the wire/light connectors, I can't make the top housing shallower; I did make it as shallow as possible.

 

[Matt Zerega]

I love modified lights. Actually I love modified anything.

Do you have a means to show how they will look on the car?

The means: print in 3D...and install I'll get to it as quickly as I can. Considering life's other obligations...it'll be a month or two

I'll post a photo in this thread once the prototype is fit to the car.

 

[Dave Bassett]

Funny you mention the Mini R50-53. I've looked into these headlights and it looks like there's about a 5-deg. difference in face angle of the lens as compared to the Fiat factory lens. They might work. After all my engine, fuel system, cooling system and brake system modifications are done... I'll use a LiDAR depth camera to 3D-scan the front of my '69 Spider and the front of an '02-'06 Mini. With those images, I'll determine feasibility of melding the Fiat fender with the Mini headlight and/or a surgical extraction of the Mini's hood/fender sheet metal.

Fiat 500 headlights/lenses might be a possibility. They look a bit smaller than first generation Mini.

 

[Matt Zerega]

Fiat 500 headlights/lenses might be a possibility. They look a bit smaller than first generation Mini.

I've taken a cursory look at the 500 lights. The issue with these - I think - is the required rotational tilt of the light assembly. To fit the light into the 850 Spider fender, I think it would require rotating the assembly in such a way that the light pattern would be directed significantly off to the sides of vehicle. I'm not sure about that, but that's how it looks to me. The Mini headlights don't appear to have this problem.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I've taken a cursory look at the 500 lights. The issue with these - I think - is the required rotational tilt of the light assembly. To fit the light into the 850 Spider fender, I think it would require rotating the assembly in such a way that the light pattern would be directed significantly off to the sides of vehicle. I'm not sure about that, but that's how it looks to me. The Mini headlights don't appear to have this problem.

I think this will be the problem with trying to fit any modern style light. They are designed with the outer cover acting as the lens and part of the assembly's function, therefore they play a role in the light dispersion. Even if you adjust the 'bulb' portion inside to aim it in the desired direction, the lens will still throw everything off. So the assembly would need to be located exactly as it was in the original car.

With the old design of covered lights the cover was not a lens and did not act as part of the illumination function, so its position isn't critical. If you can find a covered headlight assembly from some other vehicle that does not use the cover as the light lens then you have a much better shot at making it work. Although there is still the challenge of making it fit the car physically.

Customizing is fun that way. Personally I love the challenges and get a huge satisfaction at making it work.

 

[Matt Zerega]

Initial design printed in polylactic acid (PLA). I don't expect to win over Jeff Stich with this initial design, but I am getting close to what I imagined. PLA is not good for long term use outdoors either, but this is an initial prototype. The top half - what I'm calling the "lens" - will be rounded at the corners on the next go round. The redesigned part will be printed with glycolized polyester (PETG) filament or similar material appropriate for outdoor use, and the assemblies will be primed and painted. I don't like the clear-lens LED either. It will be replaced with a second red one - one for running light, and the other for brakes. Amber will be turn signal, of course.