'87 Bertone X1/9 for sale ... low miles but rusty

konis, nice interior, nice steering wheel, and a low mileage driveline if nothing else. Though I am not a builder of such things, it seems like it would have high modification/race car written all over it since it's already less a few of the more useful & common body parts that one expects for a regular/stock driver. If you could get it closer to the middle of the country for the same price, I'd start getting tempted.
 
Not to step on the seller's toes hopefully. But you guys in the other parts of the country seem to have a very different take on what is considered a reasonable project car than we do in the west. In the last couple of years I've purchased two X's out here that were complete and driving for considerably less than $500 each. One is a virtually rust free and very solid '79. The other is a low mile Bertone with a decent amount of rust, but it also had coil-overs, alum rad, SS and alum overflow tanks (one a spare), new battery, good interior, performance cam, new tires, lots of new mechanical parts, plus quite a lot of spares. Both had titles (although it took awhile to get the duplicate for one of them), which is a bigger issue than in some parts of the country. And I've passed up on a few other such offerings since then (really no need to stockpile them). My point? I guess it is a completely different market here so selling cars like this isn't always easy (I can sympathise with this seller). Which might also help to explain the reactions we have to some of the outlandish asking prices for other X's at times. I still can't understand why someone will spend $30+ K on restoring a X and expect to get it back, but that's another issue.

That being said, the one offered here is certainly worth $500 as a parts car. Remove the drive train, interior, perhaps a body panel or two(??), a handful of other bits and scrap the cancered hulk (absolutely no point in trying to revive a ton of rust). Especially if it still has the NJ title - that won't fair well with Calif's SMOG laws (but anything is possible for a price). So as I said this isn't intended to hinder the sale of this vehicle. Quite the opposite; now that the asking price has been brought down to a reasonable number for a parts car it should sell.
On the other hand, if the seller wishes to part it out I think he can get more for individual parts. But then he will have to contend with the tear down, clean up, packaging and shipping, flakey buyers, and scrapping the hulk - which also isn't always easy to do in Calif (the state has WAY too many regulations preventing normal car enthusiast activity). Hopefully the new buyer will be willing to offer some of the unneeded items here soon. ;)

By the way, I still admire your mom's past choices in vehicles. And respect that she is still driving a stick in her 80's. :)
 
I was imagining for the right guy or gal with an X1/9 project it would be a wonderful collection of parts & some spares (engines are usually pretty hearty, so I can't imagine that a 55k example is that much more wonderful than a 155k example if both would be rather rebuilt prior to use, but there are some late SOHC-specific improvements, no? Jeff you're right that us right-coasters probably do have a different view of what is a project (and, in turn, quite different from our friends in northern Europe!) and what is not, but I do think the seller's description put this car very much at the point of being a nice collection of good parts in the shape of a car. I guess anywhere in the country (unless you have crazy regulations that won't let a hobbiest part out their own car), you start at the price/100lbs for mixed metal & go from there & if the suspension upgrades have not suffered terribly in dormancy and you could use a spare 1500SOHC/5 speed or a pretty nice Bertone interior, like the phone dial wheels, need side panels for the '87 look, etc....well, that's the idea. Don't worry, I wasn't thinking I'd be tempted because I was planning on driving it to work in a few weeks. I have my own challenging projects (that may or may not be reasonable!) that I like better, but I would expect someone closer would have a use & have struck a deal.
 
Going OT.....

No kidding ... she's still driving the C30 at 83 years old and it's a stick. :)

Nice! My mum is a young 78 & also drives a C30 - but not a stick. She wanted one after riding around in mine :D Mine is the black one, manual, lowered, bigger turbo, etc., hers is stock T5

C30-00230m.jpg
 
Chris I agree with you, it is good as a parts car for someone wanting to piece together another project car. And I hope I did not come off sounding otherwise. I think it is worth the price range currently being asked, for what it is. I was sort of getting the impression others might be thinking it should be restored - although I might be mistaken about that. Although you bring up another good point. Often when a old car has been sitting and rusting away for many years, even the aftermarket parts/accessories get ruined beyond use. So sometimes those "extras" are not worth any additional selling value. Unfortunately there really isn't a way to know exactly what you will end up with until you buy it and start tearing it apart. Just the risk you take with old cars. Which is why there are not worth much more than scrap value as you say. Honestly if I didn't already have two (complete) project X's and so many spare parts I would consider it.
 
I would pay $500 for it just for all the AC parts - that is if it were within 100 miles or could somehow be delivered that close. The interior bits are probably worth just as much to someone else. Wheels, drivetrain similar. I'm surprised somebody in LA hasn't bought it yet.
 
The thing about used AC parts is there's very little you can reuse. Assuming you want to install AC in a non-AC car. The compressor mounting bracket, but not the compressor. The evap/heater box; if you properly flush the evap core it might be reused but only if a new replacement isn't available. The alternator mounting brackets, but the alt itself isn't likely worth reusing. And the controls, if they still work. But everything else must be replaced or else you will be doing it again soon. That includes the expansion valve, reciever/dryer, all hoses, the condenser, compressor with clutch, and even the pressure switches. And you will still need to replace the water pump and housing, and most likely the alternator with new parts. So if you aren't installing AC into a non-AC car, then there really isn't anything worth using. I suppose a similar argument could be made for old used interior parts that have been sitting out in the NJ weather for many years. Naturally the engine/trans, fuel system, electrical system, hydraulics, etc will all need to be redone before they can be safely put into service after sitting as well. Old cars are a mess to deal with, especially when they have sat out in harsh environments for ages. As I've said, that does not mean this isn't worth something as core parts though. Just understand what you are buying.
 
Yeah, it would be nice to have the space but it would be nice if someone on here can use the drivetrain to resurrect another X. I'd part it out but I don't have the time or patience to deal with that. I'm moving in March and would like to get it out of there by then.


That's harsh, but I can't say my own sentiment is close to the same. What's cool (in a sense, I'm guessing NOT so much for Steve) is it's still there & hasn't been hauled off to a pull-a-part of whatever. Oh, that's just for the rust free cars with a bad plug wire in California, right? (just kidding... )
 
Yes and no. The car was sitting in NJ under a tarp for a while but it's been stored indoors in CA since 2010. In 2010, when I brought it out here, I had intended to get it running and started working on it. I rebuilt the brake calipers, flushed the oil, coolant and gas, replaced all of the belts, filters, plugs, wires and distributor cap and rotor. And, go figure ... it started right up with no misfires and after all of the crap burnt off ... no smoke.

I started digging into the chassis and realized that it just wasn't worth it and parked it. I "drove" it around the parking lot a few times and then I noticed that the rubber lines that connect the injectors to the fuel rail were spraying fuel. Not wanting to burn it to the ground, I shut it off and that was the last time I started it.

I haven't done a compression or leakdown on the engine. It's all original (ie. never had any internal work done, never had the head off, etc.). Also, I have both the 1500cc and 1300cc head wrenches that will go with the car. I had a '76 and '77 X previously (back in the '80s) and still have random X tools.

On the AC ... no idea if it works or if there's even a charge in it. The interior is more dusty than anything and since it had a tarp on it for all of those years in NJ, it's not sun-damaged.

It is what it is ... it's not a new car ... I'm basically asking for the equivalent of 2 months of gas for my truck, so it's not a huge amount of money for the parts.


The thing about used AC parts is there's very little you can reuse. Assuming you want to install AC in a non-AC car. The compressor mounting bracket, but not the compressor. The evap/heater box; if you properly flush the evap core it might be reused but only if a new replacement isn't available. The alternator mounting brackets, but the alt itself isn't likely worth reusing. And the controls, if they still work. But everything else must be replaced or else you will be doing it again soon. That includes the expansion valve, reciever/dryer, all hoses, the condenser, compressor with clutch, and even the pressure switches. And you will still need to replace the water pump and housing, and most likely the alternator with new parts. So if you aren't installing AC into a non-AC car, then there really isn't anything worth using. I suppose a similar argument could be made for old used interior parts that have been sitting out in the NJ weather for many years. Naturally the engine/trans, fuel system, electrical system, hydraulics, etc will all need to be redone before they can be safely put into service after sitting as well. Old cars are a mess to deal with, especially when they have sat out in harsh environments for ages. As I've said, that does not mean this isn't worth something as core parts though. Just understand what you are buying.
 
Cool ... my Mom's is a silver 2010 R-design. It was a left-over after they did the front end update and she got a killer deal on it. It's a fun car and I'm sure it'll end up being mine sometime soon as she's starting to get a little sketchy behind the wheel. Have you seen the Polestar AWD C30? It was out here a few years back at a Cars and Coffee. Totally insane and mostly all parts bin Volvo stuff.

Going OT.....



Nice! My mum is a young 78 & also drives a C30 - but not a stick. She wanted one after riding around in mine :D Mine is the black one, manual, lowered, bigger turbo, etc., hers is stock T5

C30-00230m.jpg
 
It's all good. Seems like you found some really good deals. This car does have a title as well (it's still a NJ since I never registered it here, but I have it). Not sure about the smog on the car and if they were 50 state cars back in '87, but I seem to think they were because Bertone couldn't afford to do two different emissions systems. Anyway, I would never suggest that anyone repair the chassis unless they really like rust.

When I first listed it, I tried to list it as "best offer" but was told that I had to put a number on it, and that $1000 was a reasonable price (read the early posts in this thread). I'd part it out and make some money if I was retired and had nothing to do, but I have a business and I make real money for my time.

Also, scrapping the chassis is easy. I've bought salvage cars for drivetrains before and if you just want the chassis gone, you'll have a line of guys willing to pick it up for free. If you want money for it, be prepared to haul it to a scrap metal dealer and they'll pay you per pound.

I'll pass that on to my Mom ... she's the reason I became a car guy for better or worse. Just an aside ... I just did some aero design and carbon parts for this car (attached). That's my day job ...



Not to step on the seller's toes hopefully. But you guys in the other parts of the country seem to have a very different take on what is considered a reasonable project car than we do in the west. In the last couple of years I've purchased two X's out here that were complete and driving for considerably less than $500 each. One is a virtually rust free and very solid '79. The other is a low mile Bertone with a decent amount of rust, but it also had coil-overs, alum rad, SS and alum overflow tanks (one a spare), new battery, good interior, performance cam, new tires, lots of new mechanical parts, plus quite a lot of spares. Both had titles (although it took awhile to get the duplicate for one of them), which is a bigger issue than in some parts of the country. And I've passed up on a few other such offerings since then (really no need to stockpile them). My point? I guess it is a completely different market here so selling cars like this isn't always easy (I can sympathise with this seller). Which might also help to explain the reactions we have to some of the outlandish asking prices for other X's at times. I still can't understand why someone will spend $30+ K on restoring a X and expect to get it back, but that's another issue.

That being said, the one offered here is certainly worth $500 as a parts car. Remove the drive train, interior, perhaps a body panel or two(??), a handful of other bits and scrap the cancered hulk (absolutely no point in trying to revive a ton of rust). Especially if it still has the NJ title - that won't fair well with Calif's SMOG laws (but anything is possible for a price). So as I said this isn't intended to hinder the sale of this vehicle. Quite the opposite; now that the asking price has been brought down to a reasonable number for a parts car it should sell.
On the other hand, if the seller wishes to part it out I think he can get more for individual parts. But then he will have to contend with the tear down, clean up, packaging and shipping, flakey buyers, and scrapping the hulk - which also isn't always easy to do in Calif (the state has WAY too many regulations preventing normal car enthusiast activity). Hopefully the new buyer will be willing to offer some of the unneeded items here soon. ;)

By the way, I still admire your mom's past choices in vehicles. And respect that she is still driving a stick in her 80's. :)
 

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Yes and no. The car was sitting in NJ under a tarp for a while but it's been stored indoors in CA since 2010.
That certainly helps a lot. Also the added info about other components. As I said, it is worth it for the parts. And you have been honest in describing the chassis as not worth rebuilding, which is well appreciated.

Even a title from NJ is better than no title. Without a title of some sort, the scrap yards are not supposed to take a car chassis. So it would have been a freebie to the local 'scrap hounds'. This way at least the remaining hulk has a little worth.

My earlier comments were intended to help those with less experience at buying old cars; to understand they are not going to pay a couple hundred dollars and be driving around town in a week's time in a reliable, safe sports car. I've encountered a few people with that notion recently, so perhaps my guard was up. I hate to see bad things happen to good people.

Very cool work on the race car. Your 'day job' sounds like great fun. Perhaps make a CF monocoque chassis/body for the X? That would eliminate all the rust issues, allowing you to bolt in the rest. ;)
 
Cool ... my Mom's is a silver 2010 R-design. It was a left-over after they did the front end update and she got a killer deal on it. It's a fun car and I'm sure it'll end up being mine sometime soon as she's starting to get a little sketchy behind the wheel. Have you seen the Polestar AWD C30? It was out here a few years back at a Cars and Coffee. Totally insane and mostly all parts bin Volvo stuff.

I have :D

Took pics of it back in Oct 2012 at the Volvo Family Day. It was quite impressive - they let us drive everything but this - had to be chauffeured in that by a Polestar rep.
IMG-8184.jpg
 
That certainly helps a lot. Also the added info about other components. As I said, it is worth it for the parts. And you have been honest in describing the chassis as not worth rebuilding, which is well appreciated.

Even a title from NJ is better than no title. Without a title of some sort, the scrap yards are not supposed to take a car chassis. So it would have been a freebie to the local 'scrap hounds'. This way at least the remaining hulk has a little worth.

My earlier comments were intended to help those with less experience at buying old cars; to understand they are not going to pay a couple hundred dollars and be driving around town in a week's time in a reliable, safe sports car. I've encountered a few people with that notion recently, so perhaps my guard was up. I hate to see bad things happen to good people.

Very cool work on the race car. Your 'day job' sounds like great fun. Perhaps make a CF monocoque chassis/body for the X? That would eliminate all the rust issues, allowing you to bolt in the rest. ;)


Exactly ... I don't want anybody to have the illusion that this is a "turn-key" project. There's significant rust and if someone wants to restore the chassis, they're a far better man than I. I've seen people fix worse, but in the end ... it's an X1/9, not a 1 of 1 Ferrari.

LOL ... the local "scrap hounds" make the rounds through the industrial estate that I rent shop space in. It's like a parade of dumpster divers once the sun goes down. I don't mind that. They can take my trash and trade it for pennies as long as they don't leave a mess. The part that pisses me off is the unlicensed contractors who use our dumpsters as their trash and just dump anything and everything on or near the dumpsters.

Thanks. That's a Glickenhaus SCG003 ... it's a privately owned sister car to Jim Glickenhaus' race car and the car that had pole at last year's Nurburgring 24. I redesigned the radiator ducts and made new ones in carbon. It's a $2M car if anyone is interested in buying one. :) Believe me, the thought of a carbon monocoque for the X briefly passed through my mind. Very briefly. No more rust ... no more chassis flex ... and an X1/9 that's costs over $100K. LOL
 
I have :D

Took pics of it back in Oct 2012 at the Volvo Family Day. It was quite impressive - they let us drive everything but this - had to be chauffeured in that by a Polestar rep.
IMG-8184.jpg

Wow ... I didn't even get a ride, just a look. It was probably the same year that I saw it. Must have been on the US tour.
 
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