A neophyte’s thoughts on attempting to paint a car

flaviaman

True Classic
Or how I developed a greater appreciation for Maaco and Earl Scheib...

I am reasonably conversant at working on the mechanical bits of an automobile but know next to nothing about paint and bodywork. Historically I have either written a check if body/paintwork was necessary or driven cars that could be confused for Urban Assault Vehicles. I once had an Alfa 1750 Berlina (be still my beating heart...) which was a fabulous auto however the lower portion of the body was so rusty I wrapped it in duct tape....the silver tape was a stunnIng contrast the the Verde Muchio (Moss Green) paint.

About a year ago I bought a 1969 124 Spider out of Florida sight unseen, I live in Oregon. The car was effectively a one owner vehicle, the owner had passed on and I purchased it from a broker via Facebook. The broker clearly knew nothing about cars but told me if had been repainted in the late 1980’s and was never completely reassembled, this was confirmed by the late owner’s daughter. Everyone has a different idea of what constitutes a good body restoration, when the car arrived the condition lived up to, or rather down, to my limited expectations. There was considerable foreign matter in the paint, the engine hood had been damaged during the 30 plus years of storage. A JC Whitney mirror was fitted to the LH door, a hole was in the RH fender for an antenna, the rear lower valance did not match the paint on the rear of the car. The rocker panels were adorned with hideous aftermarket mouldings.

But worst of all was that the doors did not latch properly. I dismissed this early on while tinkering with other bits, I detest working on doors, but finally realized they were later doors with federally mandated side impact beams. Along with the beams Fiat changed the position of the latch slightly and hence the issue. The prior owner, or rather his shop, drilled extra holes in the latch panel in an attempt to make the doors latch properly, alas they failed.

I located an early set of doors, they appear to have changed mid 1972. Armed with information from the www, not to mention Gill’s inspiring post about refinishing his 600, I decided to attempt to repaint the car. I believe whenever one starts a project it is wise to have expectations set, mine are:

1: Original color, in this case Fiat code 241 - Giallo Colorado
2: paint exterior as well as engine compartment, door jambs and trunk
3: have the car look as stock as possible and original finishes...I.e. bolts market with Fiat and replated with the correct finish.
4: a nicely finished chassis, I really dislike overspray
5: strip to bare metal
6: paint quality / finish better than Maaco(!!!) - Driver Quality, nothing more
7: a budget of $2,000 USD and a considerable amount of “Sweat equity”
8: completion date of Spring 2021

My apologies for being so verbose. I am about one month into this project and finally gathered enough courage to post about it..it could be a colossal failure, the house may explode from lacquer thinner fumes, my Significant Other may disembowel your scribe for overspray in the garage, no doubt what few brain cells I have remaining will be deminished. Feel free to comment and offer suggestions....much of this I am “winging”.

I will post a few photos and updates every week or so. Thank you for you indulgence....
 
AE3C45DD-1913-438F-96CA-A7E4CF38D1E8.jpeg
158ACC7F-40DF-4705-87AF-899AA284E913.jpeg
D60193F8-07F6-44F3-AA0F-9D047979373B.jpeg
D4321989-C443-4138-845B-EA15C210B5B3.jpeg
 
I hope it goes well. It certainly looks like you have your work cut out for you. Why strip to bare metal though? Except where you have to, to deal with rust / prior bondo, etc., that will definitely take much longer, and flash rust will be an issue unless you have a controlled environment to work in, I believe.

My Dallara was my first 'real' bodywork & paint.

My observations are:

prep takes much longer than planned
misc prep & paint supplies cost at least 2-3 times expected
buy a good spray gun (not HF, generic, etc)
have a very large reserve compressor or be prepared to only spray small sections of the car at a time
 
You have more patience than I do. I punted after months of attempting to get the body prepped on my 85X. :rolleyes: Sanding is much harder than it seems. I took it to Maaco and they did a pretty good job.

Good luck with your project!
 
I am a newcomer to body work, I have advice from a friend who is a long time professional. Others will have different techniques.
My approach to a bare metal repaint, one panel at a time:

Remove all eternal bits, including the glass, as this is the time to get the rust prone window channels. The windshield has a chance of breaking on the way out,

Rough sand it, identify high and low spots.
Chemically strip it, clean with lacquer thinner.
Do any necessary straightening and planishing on sheet metal. (There are a bunch of new skills for me in doing this.)
There can be no rust anywhere you are spraying.
Spray two coats of epoxy sealer.
Do any necessary bondo work, my goal is a maximum of 1/16 inch when finished.
Rough out bondo. Repeated coats as necessary.
Block sand the bondo areas, using a 16 inch block if possible. Use a guide coat for final sanding. Avoid cutting through the sealer.
Place no bondo over bare metal or high build primer.
Clean with alcohol.
Spray a minimum of two coats of high build primer.
Block sand it. Never put pressure on the edge of the block. More coats of primer will likely be necessary. This is a long and fussy process.
Sand it finer and finer with a 16 inch block, finishing with 800 wet on a 12 inch block. Soft blocks may be necessary on high curve areas.
If there is a cut through to bare metal, spray sealer again if there is bondo to be used in that place.

I will use a professional to do the base and clear final coats. My spraying skills are not nearly good enough.

It is dirty and toxic work. I wear a professional mask with the appropriate canisters. When I spray I have a plastic "spray booth" around the area. I always work with the garage door open, and the compressor charged with enough air for that section of spraying. (Not many people survive an explosion from lacquer or acetone, compressors can make a spark when starting).

Your shop will have dust everywhere!

It is way more work than I ever imagined, an the learning is steep. It has been a good challenge.
 
Last edited:
One step forward, two steps back....

Thank you for your comments...Paul I largely agree with your thoughts. Dr Jeff, the debris from sanding is a concern and I am hoping to do that outside during the next few weeks.

Against my better judgement I bought a cheap HF spray gun, I had read that people use them to apply primer, well primer can also be applied with a roller and I doubt if it would have looked much worse. I was using an old hood to practise on and I could never get primer to lay down smoothly. I exchanged the el cheapo spray gun for HF’s “best“ with the daunting name of Black Window. It is a vastly superior gun though I still struggle with atomization/orange peal.

I gave the Fiat color code to my local auto paint jobber, what they showed as Fiat 241/Giallo Colorado was far redder than the stock color, I then left the wiper cowl to color match, a few days later I get a call that they have a color “that is very close”. After spending $23.00 for half a pint I can unequivocally state that Toyota “Air Green” is not a match. If your Corona or Crown needs touch up the half paint is yours for shipping costs...

There are fundamentally two types of Urethane paint: Single Stage which does not require a clear coat but is not as glossy or resilent, and Two Stage which is a base coat that then needs to have a clear applied. I wanted Single Stage as I think Two Stage is far too glossy for older cars.

I found an old DuPont code on the www for 241/Colorado Giallo and the paint shop mixed a pint for me to try, I requested Single Stage.
For a variety of reasons I wanted to paint the engine compartment first. I fired up the compressor, donned a respirator, adjusted the spray pattern to my best abilities and laid down a coat of epoxy primer. The engine compartment looked resplendent in clean white primer. The following evening I then laid down color, two coats in fact. The next morning I was struck by the lack of depth or shine. Out comes the sandpaper, sanding blocks and water. Still no shine, I had however sanded through the paint in several places.

D134A50C-427A-4C67-A330-5AF40F8F38E2.jpeg


Wondering where I screwed up I return to the paint shop for an education armed with both the paint can and material data sheet. By this point in time everyone in the shop knows me as “the old guy with the funny yellow Fiat”. The guy who mixed the paint tells me I have the wrong data sheet (which they supplied), the guy I ordered the paint from tells me I have the wrong paint. I was supplied base coat which requires a clear coat, I did not want this. Furthermore I mixed it as if it was Single Stage....

Not wanting to strip the paint I opted for a quart of Clear coat, which of course requires a special can of Hardener, to shoot over the base. I ended up with effectively two coats of Clear as I needed to move the bag with the wiring harness. Much to my dismay the engine compartment has more “bling” than a Singapore whore, they never left Pininfarina looking this glossy.....


8B4D6F4B-9E0F-4C8B-ABFE-3A2E2E6738D4.jpeg


Regrettably this picture does not fully capture the bling, fortunately neither does it capture the orange peel.

I look forward next to fitting the cross member, which I shot with black epoxy primer, and then the front suspension and steering, before starting on finishing the doors....
 
Last edited:
Your experiences sound all too familiar to me...aside from what a Singapore whore looks like :oops:.

Primer is rather thick because it is a thin layer of filler that's intended to be sanded flat, and therefore it easily gets orange peel. But it is relatively easy to sand out - hince one more case of the dredded endless sanding.

Getting the wrong paints from the supplier is another unfortunate but not rare occurrence. With a single stage paint you can build up enough layers to wet sand (yet another case of sanding) and then polish/buff to a very nice shine. But it takes considerable work to get it smooth and shiny. However I still prefer it to two-stage paint for vintage cars - for the reasons you stated (I don't want my old cars to look like a Singapore whore :D).

I am no painting expert by any means. I took a couple classes to learn the basics, and I've painted a few of my own cars. Each one seems to get a little better. I guess it's one of those skills that improves with practice. Sounds like you are doing a great job for a first attempt.
 
Oddly, the only time I was ever propositioned by a prostitute was in Singapore. I was in a Toys R Us getting a gift for my daughter and I got propositioned going out the door. Your car looks much better than she did.
 
The inside of the store looked remarkably like one in the US. However, it was located quite a few stories up in a high rise shopping mall.
 
What size tip did your primer gun have? Typically, you want a 1.8 - 2.0 tip for high build primers. Base coat/clears use more like a 1.2 - 1.4 tip. The paint literature should indicate what size to use.

I'm not a pro painter, but have painted about a dozen cars. I used a $10 HF gun to paint the base/clear on the last car; just to prove a point. The operator's skill is more important than the equipment. I learned that lesson buying guitars; an expensive guitar didn't make me a better player. I still suck, but my paint job turned out great.



One step forward, two steps back....

Thank you for your comments...Paul I largely agree with your thoughts. Dr Jeff, the debris from sanding is a concern and I am hoping to do that outside during the next few weeks.

Against my better judgement I bought a cheap HF spray gun, I had read that people use them to apply primer, well primer can also be applied with a roller and I doubt if it would have looked much worse. I was using an old hood to practise on and I could never get primer to lay down smoothly. I exchanged the el cheapo spray gun for HF’s “best“ with the daunting name of Black Window. It is a vastly superior gun though I still struggle with atomization/orange peal.

I gave the Fiat color code to my local auto paint jobber, what they showed as Fiat 241/Giallo Colorado was far redder than the stock color, I then left the wiper cowl to color match, a few days later I get a call that they have a color “that is very close”. After spending $23.00 for half a pint I can unequivocally state that Toyota “Air Green” is not a match. If your Corona or Crown needs touch up the half paint is yours for shipping costs...

There are fundamentally two types of Urethane paint: Single Stage which does not require a clear coat but is not as glossy or resilent, and Two Stage which is a base coat that then needs to have a clear applied. I wanted Single Stage as I think Two Stage is far too glossy for older cars.

I found an old DuPont code on the www for 241/Colorado Giallo and the paint shop mixed a pint for me to try, I requested Single Stage.
For a variety of reasons I wanted to paint the engine compartment first. I fired up the compressor, donned a respirator, adjusted the spray pattern to my best abilities and laid down a coat of epoxy primer. The engine compartment looked resplendent in clean white primer. The following evening I then laid down color, two coats in fact. The next morning I was struck by the lack of depth or shine. Out comes the sandpaper, sanding blocks and water. Still no shine, I had however sanded through the paint in several places.

View attachment 35106

Wondering where I screwed up I return to the paint shop for an education armed with both the paint can and material data sheet. By this point in time everyone in the shop knows me as “the old guy with the funny yellow Fiat”. The guy who mixed the paint tells me I have the wrong data sheet (which they supplied), the guy I ordered the paint from tells me I have the wrong paint. I was supplied base coat which requires a clear coat, I did not want this. Furthermore I mixed it as if it was Single Stage....

Not wanting to strip the paint I opted for a quart of Clear coat, which of course requires a special can of Hardener, to shoot over the base. I ended up with effectively two coats of Clear as I needed to move the bag with the wiring harness. Much to my dismay the engine compartment has more “bling” than a Singapore whore, they never left Pininfarina looking this glossy.....


View attachment 35107

Regrettably this picture does not fully capture the bling, fortunately neither does it capture the orange peel.

I look forward next to fitting the cross member, which I shot with black epoxy primer, and then the front suspension and steering, before starting on finishing the doors....
 
I agree with Mark, the operator's skills is the biggest factor.

I probably have at least 5 or 6 different spray guns; a couple of small 'detail' ones (no idea how I ended up with two the same), a couple of very old quart size 'pressure pot' guns (from before HVLP existed), and a couple of HVLP ones - one decent quality the other a very cheap Harbor Freight one. There's also a couple more guns that I inherited from my dad but they weren't maintained and are no good. My older guns (pre HVLP) are also no longer usable due to the seals rotting and repair parts are not available for them anymore.

The detail gun(s) are great for really small jobs. And the cheapo HF gun is what I use when I don't care too much about the outcome (like laying down heavy coats of high build primer). I tried drilling out the tip size on it to increase the flow but it didn't make any difference; likely drilling it did not achieve anything. However I'm sure if I had a actual tip that was larger it would be better for that purpose. I use the 'better' gun for final finishes.

Going way back to some of my earliest paint jobs, using the old guns (when they were newer and still working), the expensive one did not do any better than the inexpensive one. In fact the pricey one was very finicky to adjust properly. And both did just as well (maybe better) than the current HVLP ones I have. I'm not hugely impressed with HVLP guns, actually preferring the older pressure style.
 
I absolutely agree that skill is far more important than tool....my point was that for for someone with zero skill such as myself I though the “better” gun atomized primer or paint better and the pattern was far easier to adjust....
 
I would have to say the tool quality still makes a difference - the cheap eBay gun I bought had a 'flutter' to it that caused an uneven spray pattern to be laid down. Using the Devilbiss gun, I had no such issues. I had no prior experience with using HVLP guns, and followed the basic directions supplied in each case. In addition, the Devilbiss gun used less paint to cover same area.
 
I would have to say the tool quality still makes a difference.....

I agree with this. Probably make less of a difference for a professional, which I am certainly not. I have 3 guns, each one being a higher quality than the last one, and with each upgrade it seemed easier to lay down a better quality paint job.
 
Back
Top