All this hadeling and no sway-bars?

BrianM

BrianM

'74 - Blue Bomber
Had '74 X's on and off since 1978. Never noticed 'tll now they don't even have anti-sway bars, really?
Anybody make an add on kit?
Do they need it?

BrianM
 
Addco was well known for doing sway bars. I don't know if they are still doing them. Some people add sway bar(s) other play with spring stiffness, some used both. IMHO, a front sway bar is good.
 
Steve Hoelscher said:
A front sway bar is a nice upgrade for a street car.

That said: I won six national championships in cars with no swaybars. 4 of those in an X1/9.
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THIS. An X1/9 doesn't need one. It handles amazingly without one. On the other hand, if you like understeer, knock yourself out.
 
I'm using a 7/8" Addco bar. It certainly won't cause understeer but it will reduce the oversteer a fair amount
 
One issue with sway bars on the X is they decrease the ground clearance even more than what's already almost non-existent...especially for a lowered X. ;)
 
It will increase under steer if fitted to the front which is considered a positive trait for a road car when pushed into a corner by a not so competent driver. Personally with lowered springs and new shocks I see no need for one on a road going x.
 
I had a front swaybar on my '74 street car. Specifically, not to promote understeer but reduce body roll and correct the car's natural rear roll bias due to the stiffer rear springs. A front bar, added to a mostly stock car, gives the car a much more stable feel in faster corners and reduces total body roll.
 
Steve, how about we develop some active dampeners to help deal with that? :p Actually I'm still working on getting air bags on mine so I can drop it to the floor....you know for the look, not for handling. :D
 
My X has a front sway bar. When it had 165/70/13 tires on it with stock springs it would push like a snow plow. Now on 30mm lowering springs
and 185/60/13 Toyo R888's it sticks hard at low speeds as well as high. I wouldn't recommend a sway bar on a stock set-up.
 
Steve Hoelscher said:
I had a front swaybar on my '74 street car. Specifically, not to promote understeer but reduce body roll and correct the car's natural rear roll bias due to the stiffer rear springs. A front bar, added to a mostly stock car, gives the car a much more stable feel in faster corners and reduces total body roll.
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I'm not one to argue with a multi-champ. I can concede that a stock suspension will have overall roll reduced with a front bar. But every X1/9 I've driven in anger on track or auto-x with a front bar either reduces the oversteer significantly or downright understeers. I suspect you know more what you're doing with suspension setups that the average Joe that just buys a bar and cranks it up. The cars I've driven with bars weren't setup by a multi-champ, that's for sure.

I've found that lowering an X1/9 relieves the need for a bar to limit roll. At least to my liking, while not significantly impacting the car's natural oversteer tendencies, which is part of what makes it a great handling car.
 
Kind of depends on what kind of driving you do with your X. Trackdays and autocrossing involve handling dynamics that you should never be approaching in your "spirited" country road driving.
 
Looks like step one is lower and maybe stiffen. What's a good adjustable lowering set up for fast street track days?
 
BrianM said:
Looks like step one is lower and maybe stiffen. What's a good adjustable lowering set up for fast street track days?
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I lowered my car with D2 sport/track-day coil-overs with quite an aggressive camber setting and no anti-roll bar (see pics below). Works well, behaves very neutral and is still comfortable on the street. However, good can be better, and next season I will tune it for 100% racing and go for much stiffer springs at the front with a 1,5:1 spring ratio front/rear as per advice from @Steve Hoelscher . But my wheels are 185/60R13, so they are tiny compared to his, so I am afraid it will understeer.
 
The PO had a rear anti-roll bar that was worn to half of its diameter due to scraping on the ground...??? About 5 years ago, I installed Vicks coilovers, lowered the car about an inch and removed the roll bar. Major improvement in street handling. The only down side was that it is a little more difficult to get my 73-year old body out of the car!
 
SuperTopo said:
I'm not one to argue with a multi-champ. I can concede that a stock suspension will have overall roll reduced with a front bar. But every X1/9 I've driven in anger on track or auto-x with a front bar either reduces the oversteer significantly or downright understeers. I suspect you know more what you're doing with suspension setups that the average Joe that just buys a bar and cranks it up. The cars I've driven with bars weren't setup by a multi-champ, that's for sure.

I've found that lowering an X1/9 relieves the need for a bar to limit roll. At least to my liking, while not significantly impacting the car's natural oversteer tendencies, which is part of what makes it a great handling car.
Click to expand...

Its important to note that the stock spring/strut setup is designed to roll onto the bump stops as you approach maximum lateral grip. The bump stops act as an additional spring to limit total roll and adjust the balance. Therefore lowering the car gets it into the bump stops earlier in roll. This has a much more pronounced effect on handling when driven aggressively.

My assumption would be that your experience with the front swaybar is on a car with a lowered front end that has retained the factory bump stops. Thus the front bar is adding to the front roll stiffness AND the bump stops are engaged very early. The combination of those two generates excessive front roll stiffness and thus understeer. My street '74 had the OE bump stops replaced with bottoming pads. The springs were my chosen rates for street use.

Street cars typically aren't driven at more than about 8/10th of lateral grip. Thus the addition of a front swaybar gives the driver the feel of more understeer even when the car is not at maximum lateral grip. The OE springs are softer in front and thus the car's natural tendency is for oversteer if the bump stops were not engaged. Significantly changing the roll ratio by adding a front bar would be noticeable at 8/10ths.

My recommended 1.5:1 roll ratio is based on the car's maximum lateral grip without the use of bump stops as supplemental springs. For a track or aggressive street setup you will want to remove the OE bump stops and replace them with a simple bottoming pad on the top of the strut housing. This keeps the chassis off the bump stops and lets the springs and bars do their job alone.
 
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