Alternative Engine Swaps...

Discussion in 'Discussion Forum' started by stingray250, Jan 3, 2016.

  1. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  2. fiatfactory

    fiatfactory Steve Cecchele

    Location:
    Western Australia
    My guess is because most people would just by an MR2 and be done with it...

    SteveC
     
  3. Welcome Mr. Ray... So, I see you just might be...

    my closest neighbor. I live in the USA too!

    What kinda interests me is that you close your post with the colloquialism, "No Worries" which is a typical phrase use by those that live "Down Under". And who is the first to respond??? Steve Chechelle from Down Under!

    As for engine swaps, I've seen various Toyotas, Chrysler 2.2 Turbos, a Chevy V6, a Cadillac 472, Alfa's, and various mods including blowers and turbos, and 16 valve heads along with other various FIAT engines.

    The "1.4 Chrysler Multi-air" you mention is actually the 1.4 FIAT MultiAir released a few years back and it, along with their V6 is powering probably hundreds of thousands worldwide!

    NEAT! And the only BIG problem with this swap was figuring out the "needs" of the single computer as its program is/was proprietary... and rightfully so. (Talk about putting all your eggs in one basket!)

    Alas... I to had a constipated CA version of a '79 X 1/9 and loved it for everything it did and does except for the power. I've cared for this stupid car for 30+ years and relieved it of its problem along with giving it some of the better foods to eat and for over 175,000 miles with never an overhaul or valve job... it has kept this old Hot Rodder grinning from ear to ear for all these years.

    It is what it is and you can change it to whatever you like... My thrill was getting so much more out of what was there for almost nothing excerpt for time.

    Hey... welcome again to the dark side. If you are anywhere near the lower left-hand corner of the U.S. and about 40 miles northeast of LA-LA-LAND, near Magic Mountain... please honk and wave and maybe stop by for some coffee.
     
  4. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    I see your position...

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  5. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    Neighbor...

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  6. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    As I was saying...

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  7. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    2.0 liter turbo is going to be physically larger than the 1.4 multi air. Beyond the physical size problem, how will the turbo, intercooler, significantly increased cooling needs and MUCH MORE be addressed?

    What about gearing? Know the correct wheel/tire diameter for the exxe is about 22.5" with little margin to move from this?

    Beyond the alternative power train, what about brakes, suspension and the rest of the exxe?

    By the time anyone is done with any alternative power train for an exxe the amount spent often WAY exceeds the cost of any JDM power train package.

    Any alternative power train or increased performance goal for the exxe or any motor vehicle often far exceeds the abilities of those who endeavor into this area. Not to say there are not folks who cannot do an excellent job at this, what has been proven over time is the vast majority of folks who try this fail at many various ways due to the very real technical know-how and engineering needs to get the entire motor vehicle proper.

    It is not often appreciated what has been originally designed in to a excellent design by it's creators and contort, bend and alter a design to their fantasy. If done properly, the exxe can have extreme on road performance... only if, and that is a BIG if when every aspect of the alterations involved are very, very carefully considered and executed with the greatest of expertise, skill, care and experience.

    I'll refer back to LeMons again where engine swaps are so very common along with "hot rodding" the stock motor.. Jay Lamm head Lemon as a rule puts these cars in class C with zero penalty laps as Jay and the staff know from years of experience and thousands of hours watching these modified cars utterly fail and often with great drama. The few power train swapped cars that do well are few and are done by folks who really know what they are doing. More often than not, these folks are automotive racing pros or similar auto technical folks as their day job.

    There is a LOT more to a high performance motor vehicle than just adding power.


    Bernice


     
  8. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    Thanks...

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  9. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    Majic Mountain...

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  10. Autobianchi

    Autobianchi Daily Driver

    Location:
    Alabama
    Interested

    I would love to see someone put a 3SGTE in an X 1/9. Especially the Toyota 5-speed transmission without widening or cutting up the rear of the car. I have one of these transmissions left over from a 93 MR2 and have been pondering on how get it to fit in my 87 bertone. Coupling this Toyota 5-speed with the Fiat 1500 would eliminate the week link on my car. They have a large case and require alot of space, intruding into the lower control arm's swing radius. With your credentials, this shouldn't be a problem, so please post lots of pictures. You got my interest, Thanks.
     
  11. TonyK

    TonyK True Classic

    Location:
    Grimsby Ont Canada
    Engine Swaps

    Well Bernice summed up a lot. I really don't think of myself as knowing everything or being able to think of everything that can happen in an engine swap. Yes I have had some failures and these are do to missing something and not knowing what to look for. But I still like the challenge and the experience it teaches me.

    I think that anyone doing a swap must throw time and costs out the window and focus on what you want to achieve and be willing to accept that there will be failures. Even auto manufactures have failure with a team of smart people working towards a common goal. Looking at the MR2 engine it looks wide and trying to keep the out put shafts centered and the turbo charger in the engine bay looks like a challenge. I am not sure of the width of the transmission but that can also affect the half shaft length and whether or not the CV joints will be stressed due to maximum angles being presented when the car is on the road or on the lift.

    I pondered another swap before the Abarth and that being a Solar 160 HP gas turbine from an Aux, Power Unit. ( APU) from an air liner. With a 10:1 reduction box coupled to the X transmission. Apart from sounding neat like the bat mobile I didn't expect it to be reliable nor thrifty on fuel. It was a thought.

    The Abarth engine swap has been interesting. But I am sure that I have $10K in parts alone and 2 years of my spare time trying to work out the concept and the bugs. I wanted to keep the lines of Fiat in a Fiat. I like the sound of the Abarth compared to the Jap. engines, but that is just me. This is my dream and that is it. So far it has been fun to drive, but realize that I am dealing with a complicated ECU that was designed to do a bunch of things in a modern car that I don't have in an older car nor want or need. Sadly the ECU/ BCM are entities that I must live with, work with and work around, but I am still waiting for those 2 computer boxes to throw something at me that I have no idea when or why it is happening. So for me I am happy with where I am and how it is progressing and I will leave you with a statement given to me when I was an apprentice electrician from the man that I was learning from.

    He said the following..." If all men thought the way I do, they would all be having sex with my wife"

    Let there be diversity. Dream.

    TonyK.

    Grimsby Ontario Canada.
     
    mkmini likes this.
  12. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    I concur... Tony

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  13. Dennisrh

    Dennisrh True Classic

    Location:
    Austin, Texas
    I though of doing the Toyota swap as well as a Chrysler 2.2 turbo swap many years ago. A few problems I thought of with the Toyota engine. Correct me if I am wrong, but isn't the exhaust and intake on the wrong side for an X 1/9 swap. The exhaust is on the front of the engine and the intake is on the back, right? Not that this completely excludes a swap into the X as some have put the Honda B16 motor in an X and it has the same intake/exhaust orientation, but it does make it more difficult as well as, exhaust sitting up against the rear firewall could cause heat problems inside the car. I think that the Toyota engine is a little lighter than a Honda K20 engine, so that's a plus, however, the Toyota engine is turbo charged at 220 hp while the Honda K20 is 210 hp NA. I think you would need to go with a water to air inter-cooler, which will add weight and complexity to the swap. As far as tuning potential goes, both motors have good aftermarket support, but I think the K20 has been pushed to higher Hp than the Toyota. I would be interested to see what you can do and how you do it. I like the idea of the Toyota, people have been swapping them into the Lotus Europa for some time with great success.

    A couple other crazy options that crossed my mind were: a LS4 engine and transmission swap. If you could shoe horn that into the back of an X you would have a ridiculous amount of hp potential or a motor cycle engine and transmission. I saw a video on you tube that said someone swapped a GSXR engine into an X. With the new Kawasaki Ninja H2R engine, If you could find one or build one, you would have 300 hp and weigh less than a stock X engine.

    By the way I am in Austin so not too far from you. Send me a message if you ever want to come by and see my Honda K24 Swapped X or any of my other X 1/9s.
     
  14. fiatfactory

    fiatfactory Steve Cecchele

    Location:
    Western Australia
    find a better body to start with, it will be more economical in the long run...unless you also do body and paint work.

    there should be enough used / wrecked 1.4multi air turbo's in the US to be able to buy an engine /trans for that sort of $$, but as others have pointed out the original outlay for the base engine is only a PART of the total cost with an engine swap...

    and your not comparing apples with apples...a 1.9 sohc with two webers and lots of nice parts will cost you around 6 to 7k in materials (according to elderair) but that will be all NEW, not a greasy 60k mile old engine, and he's making around 170 at the crank, a fellow in Italy has gone well above that with a 1.9 EFI NA, so it is possible...

    You can get a new in the crate 2000 16v turbo Fiat/Lancia Thema / Delta engine for around 4k (sans turbo and ECU) out of Germany..but it's a tight squeeze and a different transmission, they are around 250hp.

    SteveC
     
  15. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    Will do..

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  16. Rupunzell

    Rupunzell Bernice Loui

    Location:
    California
    Where did the 175hp number come from?

    What is the intended goal for this exxe?


    Bernice


     
  17. Hey sailor... I can't believe how much our lives...

    have paralleled...

    [​IMG]

    I was an ETN2 from '67 - '71 with about a year of schooling in SD and SF, two years doing ASW work (SOSUS) in Coos Bay Oregon and 10 months, 11 Days in downtown Da Nang RVN. I was part of my family's destiny I guess as my father was a Motor Machinist's Mate (Motor Mac) with a CMBU in Tarawa, my mother was a WAVE Pharmacist's Mate at Naval Hospital Long Island NY, and nursed my father back to health. My brother served as a USNR PHC (Aviation) for 25 years. None of us ever served as a crewmember of a ship! HA!

    During all my tours in OR and RVN and being shore-based, I always worked closely with the CB's. Usually it was because I needed supplies and labor and it was outside the realm of using official requests and methods... but that was all part of the CAN DO philosophy, of which you surely live out and understand.

    I just re-read your post and caught the Majic Mountain reference... I spent a couple of years out in Cali... Fairfield... To be exact... Grandparents used to take us to Majic Mountain along with Knotts Berry Farms... Man I miss them days...

    My kids grew up in the 80's around here when there were only 3 high schools in the area. Working at Magic Mountain after school, weekends and summer appeared to be part of the curriculum for a diploma back then. I think I have only been to MM about 4 times in the 45 years I have lived in this area... except to drop off and p/u the kids! HA!

    We used to camp at a place called Twin Sisters...The twin summits of the highest peak in the Howell Mountains of Solano and Napa Counties,
    California... Used to go to Tahoe and a place called Wrights Lake...

    My family and I got into sailing Cats mostly for about 20 years and unlike many of the 103 members of our fleet who towed them behind campers and motorhomes... I had a new '76 Malibu Wagon and we "camped". It was fun and enjoyable but tiresome with set-ups and my wife was starting to moan about getting a motorhome. I just wouldn't do that but solved the issue easily in two expensive stages. 1) We bought a Cabin in Big Bear which is an all season recreational area and 2) we stayed at the nearest Marriott or Hilton to wherever and whenever we were sailing. More to this but I better stop here...

    Trophy weekend for me back in 2010 or so...

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]

    Finally... Wayne Wright's little conversion about a decade ago which I call, "I coulda had a V8!"

    [​IMG]

    Now so can you! Especially modifying an LT or LS-whatever all aluminum V8 engine with about 450+hp! Trans adapters are easy to make or purchase using a split Cad/Tornado 3 speed Turbo-Hydro and then flipping the final drive over.

    I've been harassing Wayne for years now... Now its your turn to step up!

    BTW... that is/was a great Bug you built but I must admit I have no idea what this Eco-whatever engine is... but is looks to be a WHEELIE MOBILE! Kinda like this...

    [​IMG]

    Finally... I'll close with this shot of my long lost Model T I started building before I entered into the Service... and found again a few years back... another Looooong story.

    [​IMG]

    Good luck with your decision and ya gotta know this, outside of me, you just received responses from probably the BEST fabricators and implementors not only on this site, but anywhere around this world. Use them! Oh... and for Fiat stuff ya got Vick's Autosports nearby in Forth Worth, Pard'ner!
     
  18. stingray250

    stingray250 True Classic

    Location:
    USA
    Hahahahaha!!!

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    Last edited: Jun 3, 2016
  19. avusblue98

    avusblue98 True Classic

    Location:
    SoCal
    3SGTE fit?

    The 3SGTE is a fairly common swap into the Mk1 MR2 - and the 4age block of the Mk1 MR2 and the Fiat block of the X are identical in size..........but the MR2's engine bay is considerably bigger than the X's, so I don't see the 3SGTE fitting into the X without a whole lot of cutting, etc.
     

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