AMERICA'S CUP... I know this should be in...

AMEN! I mean the guy can BUY anything...

How 'bout buying a good tactician!

Looking forward to races today... and Geez, 26 mph and the rules say too much!

I mean when race car drivers were killed, the found a way to prevent the tragedy and then go FASTER!

I know the loss of that crewman was kind of a freak accident... They are now wearing helmets, wet suits, full floatation...

Hey maybe a EPIRB device on each crewman, flares and a HANS device would do the trick!
 
Not yet Ian!

WOW... what a lousy break for NZ on the first race... and WOW... did we sail a great race or what on the second time around.

I really think this course should be longer because of the average wind conditions... do twice around or something which would give each skipper a chance to recover.

I guess they race again today... like Russian Roulette for us...

Anyway, I'm glad to see some REAL competitive racing now. Worthwhile to watch!
 
It's a bl**dy joke, Tony!!

....... like Russian Roulette for us...
!

Can you imagine this sorta cr*p going on in the middle of a Federa-Nadal marathon tennis match - like, some little ol' bald-headed guy steps out onto the court, and says "sorry guys, match is over - you haven't finished playing in the 40 minute time limit"!!!

Sheez, mate, its a friggin' rort!

Anyway, the next race is coming up soon - COME ON, KIWI'S!!!

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
Sheez, talk about.......!

.....watching paint dry!! :rolleyes:

Well Tony, Spithill has certainly made it a contest now - just let's get on with the racing!!

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
Looks like the Kiwi's are about to snatch defeat from the jaws of victory.....and after 3 weeks of match racing it's all gonna come down to less than 40 minutes of sailing.

And if the Americans win, it will go down as one of the biggest come-backs in sports history... and the Kiwi's will never hear the end of it!!

SteveC
 
Maybe you can take some comfort Ian, from knowing it took an Australian to help the American's pull that one off... probably not.

Congratulations USA for a fine F1 boat race ...gee they are quick across the water.

SteveC
 
Yep, congrats Jimmy........!

......but, Steve, I gotta say - it was Larry's US$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ that won the Cup!! :king:

cheers (not many), Ian - NZ
 
I've been taking an aspirin before every race even thou i came to a point that likeTony,thought your crew mates were going for an early unmerciful kill!!
On one side I know the tactician and skipper nationalities already but have negated myself to search the other crew nembers one.
This Competition have shifted from been an all proud national teams to more like the United Nations teams over the yrs but im in some way ok with that.Same goes with this gigantic AC72 cats.Its like Steve said "F1" boats!!!.....compared to the old monohull formula.But I loved it!!
 
I'm into football, not sailing and really don't know

squat about it. I've got to congratulate the Kiwis for giving us a scare and tough competition. Although there's only one winner, they have every right to hold their heads high with pride for the NZ team performance.

Ian, go have several of those TUI beers anyway. You guys did a great job.

Mike
 
Already done, Mike.......!

......Ian, go have several of those TUI beers anyway....

....but I agree with Albert's comments - the whole America's Cup "thing" has just grown to become a 'rich guy's contest between ego's'! These new-fangle cats are amazing to watch, but the cost of making something competitive in this field is just outa sight for today's average keen sailor.
Never mind, it was sure spectacular to watch (particularly when we thought we may be winner's :dance:) with the faster boat the winner on the day!!
Off to the fridge now for another coupla Tui's!! :)

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
AC72 class – sailing faster than the wind

I wouldn't get too hung up on the nationalities of the crew make up aside from the 7? Aussies ( and 3 Kiwis ) on the USA cat there were, if I count it correctly, two Aussies were on the Kiwi Cat. Guys like these ply their craft all over the world and are the best at their game. The flag that the craft is flying often seems irrelevant now and I blame the Swiss for that.

Oracle


James Spithill (Australia): Skipper
Tom Slingsby (Australia): Strategist/grinder
Ben Ainslie (Great Britain): Helmsman
Darren Bundock (Australia): Coach/tactics
Will McCarthy (Australia): Grinder
Joe Newton (Australia): Trimmer
Sam Newton (Australia): Grinder
Kyle Langford (Australia): Trimmer/grinder
Simon Daubney (New Zealand): Trimmer/grinder
Murray Jones (New Zealand): Trimmer/tactics
Kinley Fowler (NZ/Ireland/Australia) Globetrotter that lives in Perth


Source: americascup.com



Interesting note from someone that spent 1/4 century in the deep blue seas is the links between the 'small' pool of talent that crew these high end grand prix water sport machines.

September 26, 1983 James Spithill was three years old, a Ben Lexan designed 12 Metre Rule boat with a tricky winged keel that comes from way behind to snatch the cup from 3-1 down in a 7 race set for the Perth Yacht Club. Australia II bested the US by 41 seconds at the finish ending 132 years of US domination. It is interesting that the 12 metre rule was created to encourage fair competition within the international rule allowing some experimentation. First used in the 1908 Olympics the NYYC adopted it after WWII, as 20 years had passed and the Cup just sat in the cupboard unchallenged and gathering dust. After 1987 the 12 Metre boats have done exactly the same - forgotten.

Oh crap I'm geting old, I remember 1983 as if it was just yesterday ( and it was 30 years ago today )

As a teenager Spithill worked in the Pittwater ( Sydney) boatyard of Colin Beashel, a crew member on Australia II in 1983 - small circles. Spithill is reported to have said that he absorbed everything he could find about how John Bertrand skippered the team in a virtual 'cone of silence. No newspapers, no TV, no radio allowed in the compound back then, totally focused and absorbed on just one thing, wining just the next race.

30 years later same focus, just win the next race.

I can't imagine how Spithills' mob could duplicate that environment in a 'connected' world with Twitter, facebook and all the intrusiveness and distraction of today brings. The length the Regatta now takes and the speed of the races just boggles the mind of the tasks required to win.

Syd Fisher is probably right when he said Team Oracle 2013 America's Cup win would surpass Australia II's effort of 1983, everything is so much more intense, the power on these boats that's required is huge, the aerobic ability and also the razor quick minds. Uber impressive. Fisher should know about Spithill I guess , he gave the guy his first break in the America's Cup when he appointed him at the age of 20, as the youngest ever helmsman in 2000 on the Young Australia effort.

It has always been a 'rich man's' playground. Sir Frank Packer took it upon himself to 'have a crack' with Gretel I & II (named in homage to his wife) at the Auld Mug. It is folklore that the Packers "instructed Alan Bond' to "take this job on" in the late 70's. I understand Ian's point though with cost upwards of $200 Million being touted its ridiculous. Alan Bond was quoted as saying today that the talent is here in Australia - but not the money. The only probable way to do that is crowd sourcing the funds on the internet. $1.5 million was used for Australia II, inflation does not account for that difference - the technology today is prohibitively expensive a fair few folks say intentionally so.

I could never find the quote but the Aussie crew in 1983 were rumoured to be paid $12.50 AUD a day, I don't think the lads today are doing it for just the pure love of sailing, they are elite sportsmen and people get killed flying these boats. Elite sports today is often more about the money than about the sport itself, but most of these guys started sailing before they had pubic hair so they must be in love with it, they deserve to be paid well as it could take their life in this class.


When a AC72 is pitchpoled we are talking a rigid wing ( it’s not really a true sail IMHO ) that is 68 metres (224 feet ) high. The wing section on an Airbus A380 is only 45% of that making the boats ‘sail’ the largest rigid wing in the world. When you cartwheel something like that – I hope you made sure your will was what you intended. IMHO it’s madness. The boats are now sailing on hydrofoils at almost three times the speed of the wind, so in 10 knots of breeze they're sailing just under 30 knots so yes VERY Formula One. I’m pretty sure the Kiwis hit over 44 knots ( 50 mph) with just under 16 knots of wind. These sailors are now test pilots because the AC72's are almost airborne vehicles, the men are super athletes. Dennis Connors and John Bertrand would have been in big trouble.


Even though I'm an old (slow) sail boat sailor the pure numbers in this series made me take a bit of notice. That's a good thing as it has fallen off the public consciousness Down Under. Today Dean Barker knows exactly how Dennis Connors felt back then, better luck next time, well fought and I'm sad he didn’t win 'just one more' race, a ticket across the ditch to watch it in NZ I would have paid for.

I do have to disagree with one thing though. Even though the money is now exorbitant it wasn't just "Larry’s money" that won that cup. Both boats were within a whisker of each other in terms of performance, they were under the scrutineers 7 or 8 times each to ensure they were inside the Regs. It is now as it was back in 1983 a good crew and a bit of luck, mostly who could read the wind better. In F1 you can control just about everything, not so on the sea. The old salts among us know that she is a fickle mistress and only those that can 'read her moods' will see success.

It is the norm at this level for each member of the crew to be multi champion in sailing classes all over the world. For example Slingsby is 6 x world champion in Lasers ( 5 of them at the top) most of those that follow sailing Down Under perhaps known him best as one of our few gold-medallists at the 2012 London Olympics. He joined the Oracle team in 2011 because he is well-regarded for his extraordinary ability to - - - read the wind.

Today’s competitive grand prix sailing is all about the detail of what you would expect in quantum physics. The micro-climate, mathematical predictions of weather, the mm tolerance of the machine. It is too ‘geek’ and that takes the romance out of it for me. That is not to say the Cup is not about the best boat, it has been so for most of its existence. There were many times when little or no challengers came forward and the formula had to change to make it more accessible ( the 12 Metre Rule ) I wonder if we will see it going in that direction ever again. The tenuous thread of "international" competition between nations is almost totally obscured ---- perpetual international competition was part of the deeds to the NYYC when the America beat the Brits around the Isle of Wight, now it is a test not just of sailing skill, boat and sail design, but also skills of fund-raising and project management. There were six guys in the original America syndicate, the costs today could be better spent feeding a small country.

I wonder what the Earl of Uxbridge would think of how his silver ewer has traveled over the years.






Andrew "Bart" Simpson
RIP
 
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Well said and explained Sandgroper.And yes only one American on the Oracle USA team, last name Kirby.
So we can probably say that if we take the amount of Proffesional Aussie sailors competing and if AUS had the means$$ to support at least 2 boats they'll probably be unbeatable!!!
Cant wait to see what rule changes, if any, will take place for next cup race.We all know this cats can go much faster as they were raced within windspeed limits for safety measures after the Artemis fatal accident.......way too fast!!
 
Clearly some Kiwis can fly.

YES! Pottsy Sir Ben was crucial.

When Oracle postponed a race in order to "regroup" ( if that is cheating then so is any Time Out in basketball ) they made changes to the boat and its crew. Spithill survived and brought Britain's Olympic golden boy, Sir Ben Ainslie on board as tactician in place of his veteran crew mate John Kotecki.

I only wish that Ben could find a British backer and try and bring that cup back home, Olympic champion and BRILLIANT tactician. That would bring life back into the cup, it is largely irrelevant to most people, F1 cars are just as irrelevant to your morning commute but it is well known ( debatable about the politics of how it is managed ).

Barker did his darndest, the boat was moving just as well as fast as it was against Luna Rossa, but Oracle became too fast to match. "I feel completely green to be honest, but then you look at where the other teams are right now and we're ahead of the game in a lot of respects," did team Oracle come to grips with their machine quicker?

Changing foils or not (we didn’t get enough coverage over here so I don’t know) is that is the sole reason for the loss? Barker admitted at the time they were sailing into the unknown when these things were doing 90Kmh. Whilst Grant Dalton was unsure if the futuristic multi hull boats were the right decision I believe they were not. Larry wanted NASCAR on the water – sadly he didn't ensure that the crew have as much chance of survival in a crash.

The cup has become known to be less about a team and its boat and more about the rules and lawyers. Sports fans disengage when they feel their team can't compete as the other guy is being unfair. Imagine if F1 allowed the teams to switch the drivers around as they do with the crew in the Cup.

So I guess my question about how relevant the Jug will become, perhaps lets just have a computer controlled race. They'd go faster with less weight and as a UAV there'd be no one to get hurt in a massive crash. But that isn’t the spirit of sailing to an old fart like me, it is about a contest between sailors in equal machines. I can’t see how that will ever take place as the holder of the cup gets to set the rule for the vessel, so costs will just escalate I guess.

Anyway

Good on you ETNZ thanks for the great sailing I hope you get to race again but I don't think you will . Any way you want to slice it I think the Kiwi sailing industry is still the winner, The boats will still be NZ made, time will tell I guess.
 
Fair enough comment, Sandgroper.....!

....YES! Pottsy Sir Ben was crucial.......
...... But that isn’t the spirit of sailing to an old fart like me, it is about a contest between sailors in equal machines
.....

....I agree with you totally on that comment!
Unfortunately, the biggest victim of this "event" is the sport of sailing/yachting itself - call it what you like!
It's now more than likely that any future interested "parties" will be spooked by the Larry E. fortress, and will think twice (more like 10 times) than take on the "US" on their home ground again! :(

Never mind, it was a GREAT contest while it lasted!! :nod:

(hey, I was a "Sandgroper" myself for a while - from 1969-1975! Lived in Scarboro Beach Rd, 5 mins walk from the beach - ahhh, still miss that beach on a summer evening after work, when the temp had hit 42C thru the day!)

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
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