Ancient Derringer Alarm

Michael Oxman

Michael Oxman

The Journey Begins!
In past posts I've asked about mystery relays in the frunk and a mystery button on the steering column shroud. People suggested the relays might be part of the alarm, and now I've done some further investigating and everything can be traced to this Derringer 8300 Car Alarm hidden under the carpet. Before finding the box I've previously cut out the alarm horn. The remote is useless because though I have it the 6 (!!) tiny batteries inside have exploded and done a good job dissolving some of its guts.

The only thing I can find online is other people asking for some manual or diagram for the thing. As you see from the picture, it has an RCA jack input (yellow arrow), a clip in phone type cable (blue arrow) at the back. On the side there is an LED and a adjustment knob. The wiring is a mess and will be a pain to try and remove.

Can I just leave it an forget about it? The car turns over but does not start, but I'm still working on it and I have never started it. I'm thinking if the alarm was "working" the car wouldn't even turn over. Can anyone offer any insight into the workings of this or similar alarms or any advice as to what to do??
Derringer Alarm.jpg
 
I would follow where the leads all go to and excise them where they meet the Fiat wiring system and mend any broken connections caused by it such as the hot to the ignition or the fuel pump etc.

Don’t just chop it out willynilly, you no start problem could be just keeping the spark from working. Many alarms would allow the starter to work but cut off the ignition and or the fuel pump so that a thief would waste time and make noise trying to get the car started.
 
I should add that the problem I have with just reconnecting the bertone wires is that there only seems to be one
that was that has an obvious reconnection.
In the picture below, only the brown and white wire has an obvious place to reconnect.
Are there any pictures, rather than wiring schematics, that show what the wiring should look like?
While I'm at it, I'll also include pics of the wires as they are now coming though the frunk wall and on the positive battery cable. Again, the frunk wires were obviously spliced, but not clear what it should look like.
 

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Mike, I feel your predicament. Trying to figure out and repair a bunch of wiring hack jobs can be very difficult, especially for someone like me that may not be the most technically savvy when it comes to electronics. Unfortunately I can't advise on how the wires should look. But I can say a little about that alarm system, as I recall it well when they were new.

The Derringer system was considered very advanced (and costly) for the time. And it included a lot of features that have since gone out of vogue. It may very well be the reason your engine won't start; some had a kill feature for the ignition that allowed the starter to crank but no spark, unless the alarm was disabled. Even though you've removed some of the alarm system, the ignition may still be disabled.

Even if the Derringer isn't the reason for the no-start condition, it can cause other issues. Back when alarms like this were poplar there were a lot of issues with random failures that caused things to go wrong. So it is best to completely remove all traces of it. As @kmead said, you will have to trace each wire to its insertion into the car's systems and properly delete them.

The Derringer had several options, with some models including things like the ability to page you when triggered (remember pagers?), a ultrasound sensor that triggered a voice warning to "back off" if someone came too close to the car, or inter linking with various remote modules. That is why you are finding odd connectors and cables going to it. The adjustment knob might be a sensitivity adjustment for the "shock" sensor. That triggered the alarm if the vehicle was impacted, jacked up, or otherwise moved. The idea being to prevent break ins, towaways, or signal the event of an accident. If set too sensitive then the alarm would go off every time some coughed while walking by (back then I had cars with exhausts loud enough to set off a lot of alarms as I drove by).

Unfortunately the wire diagrams and instructions were only issued to licensed installers. Otherwise thieves could easily disable it. So you'll be very hard pressed to find much technical help with removing it. If it comes down to it, you might see if there are any old school car alarm businesses in your area with someone that used to install these. But if you methodologically trace each wire one by one to wherever it goes, then you should be able to eliminate all of it.
 
You can still get a tester for it
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On the units, it says which color wires have what functions; you may be able to use picture as a guide.
HTH!
 
I would very definitely try to remove that unit. Just trace one wire at a time. If you don't have a wiring diagram for your car then go to Mirafiori.com and check the extensive library there for a wiring diagram for your car. Do we have a similar library here?
 
carl said:
I would very definitely try to remove that unit. Just trace one wire at a time. If you don't have a wiring diagram for your car then go to Mirafiori.com and check the extensive library there for a wiring diagram for your car. Do we have a similar library here?
Click to expand...
I've started tracing in earnest and the wires go under the dash, into the ignition system and into the fuse box. Most infuriating, they go under the pedal box that it took me hours to reinstall!! I am going to test for power to the coil and if I'm getting it I'm seriously thinking of leaving it.
 
I guess now it is apparent why they used to charge hundreds of dollars to install one of these systems, on top of a few hundred for the alarm it self. I recall opting for a lesser expensive brand/type of alarm system on a car I had, a 'high profile' target for thieves back then. At the time I was very busy with my carrier so decided to just have the shop install it for me. That was a difficult decision because I never let others touch my cars, so I researched to find the best installer in my area. He did a great job but the labor was more than the alarm, if I recall somewhere around $350 total (back in about 1980). A top level unit (along the lines of yours possibly) was twice that, or roughly double what I've paid for any of my current X's.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
I guess now it is apparent why they used to charge hundreds of dollars to install one of these systems, on top of a few hundred for the alarm it self.
Click to expand...
I had a good laugh at your earlier post about these alarms. I remember when the alarms that spoke "alert, alert - back away from the car" s came out, and then there were the 4 or 5 alternating alarm sound alarms, which I always thought would be a good bed for a rap song for someone clever.

Today, the best protection for a car is to have a manual transmission!!

EDIT - Just did the test, and there's 12V to the coil with the ignition i the "on" position. Alarm stays!!
 
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I guess rather 'ostentatious' car alarms were a bit of a fad for awhile. Along with sheepskin seat covers, nose bras, and several other items of that era.
But I have to object to your title using the word "ancient" to describe a 80's alarm. What does that make me? :eek:
 
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