Auxiliary shaft bearing replacement

Damage free removal requires using a disc with a step and a puller set up.

The ID of the disc is slightly smaller than the OD of the aux shaft bearing journal surface, the OD of the disc is slightly smaller than the OD of the bearing. The disc has a threaded hole which allows a threaded rod to be used to provide force to remove or install the bearing. The disc also must be thin enough to fit and clear the gap in the block's aux shaft housing area. Two different size disc are required as the two bearing journal sizes are different.

Here is what the Fiat OEM bearing removal / install tool looks like. If time permits, I'll dig up the disc made some time ago to remove / install the aux shaft bearings for a few pictures. Using make-shift tool, socket or similar runs a very high risk of damaging the bearings during install or removal.

Aux%2520shaft%2520tool002.jpg


The Fiat aux shaft bearing reamer looks like this. It is a piloted reamer or guided reamer to assure proper alignment during the sizing operation and note it is always done with the bearings installed in the block to account for bearing crush post installation.

There are old school engine machinist who knows how to properly hone bearings to size. This was common in more than a few older engine designs. If you can find a shop like this, have them hone these bearings to size.

Aux%2520shaft%2520reamer003.jpg

This is the aux bearing tool in use as shown in the Fiat factory service manual. I prefer using constant force over pounding as there is better control and has lower risk of damage to the bearings.

Aux%2520shaft%2520service_pg%25201A006.jpg


Fiat factory service manual pages on reaming the aux shaft bearings to fit.

Aux%2520shaft%2520service_pg%25202A007.jpg


Fiat specifications for aux bearing clearance and fit.

Aux%2520shaft%2520specs001.jpg


Proper bearing clearance is important as excessive clearance can and will affect oil pressure as it is the first feed from the oil pump after the oil filter.

*** Make sure the oil hole in the bearing is properly lined up with the oil hole in the block or assured destruction of the bearing / aux shaft will occur in short time.***

Oiling%2520system004.jpg



Bernice




How do you remove them?
 
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Which is why taking care with these aux shaft bearings is vitally important. After one dealing with this and one does not want to repeat it again... ever.

A piloted reamer like this can be made to order at significant cost. Given how often it might ever be used, old school ways of hand honing by old school engine machinist should be fine. Problem today is finding mechanical folks like them these days.

Getting this resolved means making some calls to figure out where to take the block with bearings for this work to be done. Or it might be possible to try what another did with honing these bearings in the garage.

Video of a mobile machinist line-bore and honing pin sleeves for a loader bucket. Tolerance is 0.001" for that big pin. Basically the same bearing fit process..

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=haG7hQhI0vM&list=UUjOWbad055mA3JLUShHimWA



Bernice



Wow Bernice, I can't imagine where I'd ever find a set of those.
 
Yeah, talk about learning a lesson the hard way.

Dropped the block and aux. shaft off this morning with clearance specs.

He took one look and said "If you can wait an hour I'll have it ready for you. This is easy."
He says the bearings are in straight they just need some honing.

Well, I had to get to work so couldn't wait. So I'll hopefully pick it up later and be back on track.

Cheers,

Rob
 
Woweeee, lucky you........!

.....He took one look and said "If you can wait an hour I'll have it ready for you. This is easy." ......

Rob, was that guy wearing a shiny-lapelled black suit, with a black top hat, and a cane under his arm??
Ask him if his name is "Mandrake". :wink2:

cheers, Ian - NZ
 
So it wasn't so easy

It's back, it's done, Mandrake the Machinist assures me everything measured fine, but he said it wasn't as easy as he thought. The shaft spins but still feels like there is minimal clearance. But that is probably fine. I guess I won't know until everything is bolted back in the car and I start the engine and watch the oil pressure.

Now it's installed I find I have 0.4mm end float.

Is this normal?

I can't find any specs in my Clymer shop manual or my Haynes joke book.

End float might affect ignition timing. Or is the effect so small it doesn't matter?
Or is the shaft forced outward by oil pressure (there is a notch in the bigger bearing that feeds oil that direction) to stabilize it's position when the engine is running?

Cheers,

Rob
 
0.4mm end float is OK, It is the bearing clearances that matter. Slightly bumpy rotation is OK as it will wear / lap in over engine running time. Better this way than a overly loose fit as a result of excessive bearing clearance. Proceed.


Bernice

It's back, it's done, Mandrake the Machinist assures me everything measured fine, but he said it wasn't as easy as he thought. The shaft spins but still feels like there is minimal clearance. But that is probably fine. I guess I won't know until everything is bolted back in the car and I start the engine and watch the oil pressure.

Now it's installed I find I have 0.4mm end float.

Is this normal?

I can't find any specs in my Clymer shop manual or my Haynes joke book.

End float might affect ignition timing. Or is the effect so small it doesn't matter?
Or is the shaft forced outward by oil pressure (there is a notch in the bigger bearing that feeds oil that direction) to stabilize it's position when the engine is running?

Cheers,

Rob
 
This is a replacement for the factory tool I just recently acquired in preparations for assembling my 1600 stroker:

P1160451.JPG

The tool is essentially an adjustable reamer with blades modified in a two-step fashion. I had the blades machined to the lower side of the tolerance range (i.e., 32.000mm and 35.664mm), which I assume was the case with the factory tool. However, since this is an adjustable reamer, the blades can be pulled back/forth to achieve slight corrections.

Considering that you may use this tool once or twice, it may seems like a relatively large investment, but considering that you may be, for instance, building a stroker and putting considerable investments into all other components, I find it hard to justify leaving old auxiliary shaft bearings.
 
I missed this thread the first time around, so I'm glad it was brought back to life. Very nice work with that tool Vuk!

The aux shaft bearings in early VW water-cooled engines are very similar to the ones in the Fiat SOHC. And the VW factory ones also come oversized, requiring reaming to fit. But as was mentioned in this thread, the aftermarket sells "presized" bearings for the VW engine. Actually in a couple of sizes to match your shaft dimensions (wear, etc). And they work for those VW engines. Therefore I assume they should for the Fiat engines also?
 
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Thanks, Jeff! I've only been able to find original bearings (Federal Mogul, old stock I assume) which are quite oversized. Given that I also found a new shaft, I figured it was worth investing in a tool to get everything into factory specs.

I have no experience with VW engines.
 
This is a replacement for the factory tool I just recently acquired in preparations for assembling my 1600 stroker:

View attachment 70900
The tool is essentially an adjustable reamer with blades modified in a two-step fashion. I had the blades machined to the lower side of the tolerance range (i.e., 32.000mm and 35.664mm), which I assume was the case with the factory tool. However, since this is an adjustable reamer, the blades can be pulled back/forth to achieve slight corrections.

Considering that you may use this tool once or twice, it may seems like a relatively large investment, but considering that you may be, for instance, building a stroker and putting considerable investments into all other components, I find it hard to justify leaving old auxiliary shaft bearings.
nice tool, but a bit of overkill considering the bearing are available aftermarket pre-sized in Std and 10 thou undersize ... once upon a time the original Fiat bearings were supplied unfinished and required reaming, but I've always used the pre-sized ones and provided they are installed properly without damage, don't require any sizing to fit.
 
Thanks, Jeff! I've only been able to find original bearings (Federal Mogul, old stock I assume) which are quite oversized. Given that I also found a new shaft, I figured it was worth investing in a tool to get everything into factory specs.

I have no experience with VW engines.
I should have said that I don't know if the "fitted" bearings (i.e. do not need reaming) are currently available for the Fiat engine. I was only making a comparison to the ones I'm familiar with in VW engines. Which I'll be replacing for a VW engine soon.

EDIT: As I was writing this post Steve posted to say they are available.
 
nice tool, but a bit of overkill considering the bearing are available aftermarket pre-sized in Std and 10 thou undersize ... once upon a time the original Fiat bearings were supplied unfinished and required reaming, but I've always used the pre-sized ones and provided they are installed properly without damage, don't require any sizing to fit.
Where are they available pre-sized?
 
Having never seen wore out aux shaft bearings... why replace them to gain a vast number of difficulties and problems?


Bernice
 
Having never seen wore out aux shaft bearings... why replace them to gain a vast number of difficulties and problems?


Bernice
No bearing is forever. I know the cars I have [all projects, most with a capital P] have clearly not been maintained. Oil changes? Filter changes? etc. So, my view is that returning all I can to as new is wise.
 
These are listed as semi finished, not pre-sized, maybe @Chris Obert can add some info?

You are correct, they are semi finished. That means only the outside is finished, the inner material is not.
I also still have 8 sets in standard. I am a vendor.

 
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