b16, 2 steps forward, 1.5 steps back.

autox19

True Classic
So after initial start up from last post;
  • 2nd engine purrs like a kitten at idle once cam timing was fixed
  • re-pulled engine clutch plate (new) was bad
  • engine back in
  • retweaked shifter rod to make 5th and reverse easier.
  • noticed digital gauge I oppsed and programmed peak rather than live for ECT
  • pressure tested coolant system found 2 leaks.
  • new coolant hose and thermostat installed
  • No coolant circulation.
so I am at no circulation. the water pump id driven off the cam belt and is cogged. unfortunatly with all the swapping stuff, I forgot to swap the water pump off of engine #1 (which was a new pump). Not seeing how it could be pump related as usually these pumps work or they just leak. a few honda forums did say they have seen the impeller come loose from the shaft. it is a hope. next plan of attack: posting to this and honda forums to see if I have the lines set up right. Try an in car simple hose flush to see if there is blockage in the block. I know there isnt in the radiator as when I replace the bad hose, squeezing the opposite hose caused coolant to come out the other side. Then if these dont work, pull the engine once again to swap out the hater pump and hope I see something bad in the current pump. good part is I have it down to a little under 3 hours by myself to pull the engine.

My coolant path:
coolant.JPG


Almost, almost, almost....

Odie
 
going to validate during lunch I have the radiator hoses right. it should be in on the top and out on the bottom
 
ok, just had a thought. the bypass is going to the heater. if the heater is off, or plugged, then the bypass wouldnt circulate and therefore wont warm up the thermostat enough to open. thinking of running a hose directly for the bypass. this should validate. correct?

Odie
 
Unless you completely altered a main feed to or from engine it would seem a stretch for the heater core to cause your issue.
I am thinking most cars, Honda may be different, attach the T housing directly to the block and specifically to the head so flow would not alter the thermostats operation.
Since it sits in the coolant in the head it will open when 200° happens in the head... Beyond that you have pump flow or whatever but the heater thing does not seem like a probable cause.
Good luck
Regards
 
let me see if this is clearer. I numbered the hoses.
when cold. thermostat is closed. no circulation to the radiator will take place 1 and 2 will be stagnant because stat is closed.
If heater is also off, the 3 and 4 will also be stagnant because the heater valve will be closed and not allow circulation.

so if heater is off the stat will remain closed because it will never get warm coolant to it from 3 or 1, which are the 2 HOT side hoses coming from the engine.

coolant2.JPG
 
googled quite a bit more looks like you are correct. there should be a second bypass hose off the intake to behind the thermostat. I am not with the car so I cant look to see if I have it correct. but it does give me place to check for heat/flow.

Odie
 
I misread or just plain don't understand... When you Google the Honda cooling diagram yes there is a heater bypass hose but only one that I see so if you just tagged into and out of those connections then yep would be a problem... Actually you would still probably see the t open if heater was open but late because all the added hose and temp drop at core.
 
No idea if this will help or confuse, but here is the diagram I came up with when I did the K20's cooling system on my X. 4 distinct circuits:
1. Main (to and from radiator)
2. Heater core (to and from)
3. Overflow bottle (to and from)
4. Bypass (controlled by thermostat)

IMG_0118_2.jpg

Pete
 
The thermostat looks like it is in the wrong place. It should be between the engine high temperature outlet and the radiator, given your flow diagram the hot water that needs to be circulated is coming from the head, should heat the thermostat diaphragm to open and allow greater circulation beyond the heater/bypass.

Don't most Hondas and other modern cars use a continuous flow heater system (using air flaps to regulate temperature) so there is always flow through there versus the X system which stops the flow through the heater core.

The way you show it the system would have to circulate through the radiator and heat all of that water to get to the thermostat to then allow circulation or am I misunderstanding your flow diagram?
 
I'm with Karl -I would expect the t/stat housing in the outlet from the head/block that feeds the radiator, so that the coolant will rapidly heat in the motor only, then begin circulation once t/stat allows bleed through & finally fully open circulation. That's the flow pattern on the X1/9, and all my Volvos (late ones off the block vs. head, with bypass to rad return hose)
 
Hi,

I have a d-series engine, but the cooling systems for the two work the same I believe.






The last image shows how my engine is plumbed and assumes an open thermostat (engine is at operating temp). When the engine is cold (thermostat closed) there will be no flow through the radiator or the hoses going to the radiator. The return pipe to my expansion pipe is restricted to limit the amount of flow, but the feed pipe from the expansion tank to the thermostat housing is larger (basically allows my system to self bleed).

I think your problem is that you are assuming an incorrect flow direction. The pump is sucking water out of the head and pushing it towards the thermostat housing through the steel pipe under the intake manifold. If what I am thinking is correct you won't have any flow from your expansion tank through your coolant system until the thermostat opens which means it will be very hard to bleed the air out of your coolant system. If there is air anywhere in the system you'll struggle with circulation.

Hope this helps!

(I just drove my X about 230miles with my brother next to me, on our way to an Ultimate Tournament here in South Africa. Love this car! :D)
 
multiple responses. First, Once again, you guys ROCK!
yes I missed the bypass as shown by paul. I was running things from memory and I have found that 50 years and a bad motorcycle accident causes that to glitch.

I think I have the direction from a few diagrams similar to this one: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/11-generation-three/172824-gsr-b18c1-cooling-system-diagram.html

it seems right because the connecting tube goes to the center of the water pump and that it usually the inlet on water pumps.

I am trying to understand how your last diagram ties into the first 2. which connections do you feed/return from your expansion using the labels from the 2 photos?

thanks again!
Odie
 
I think I have the direction from a few diagrams similar to this one: http://www.team-integra.net/forum/11-generation-three/172824-gsr-b18c1-cooling-system-diagram.html

it seems right because the connecting tube goes to the center of the water pump and that it usually the inlet on water pumps.

Yep, you are completely right! Somehow I confused myself and I got the flow direction wrong. My bad, sorry! Hehe, I can't even blame it on age or anything (let's just say it was a late night ;))

Anyway, this is updated:






1: Supply hose to radiator (thermostat closed: there is no flow in this pipe; thermostat open: hot water flows towards the radiator)
2: Return from radiator (thermostat closed: there is no flow in this pipe; thermostat open: cold water flows from the radiator)
3: Supply pipe to heater, located under distributor (This pipe supplies hot water to the heater and always has flow; mine is restricted (small pipe) and supplies coolant to the top of the expansion tank)
4: Return pipe from heater (This pipe returns colder water from the heater to the thermostat housing; mine is connected via a larger pipe to the outlet/bottom of my expansion tank)
5: Thermostat Bypass Hose (always has flow)
6: Supply to waterpump from thermostat housing (metal pipe)
(Really small Idle Control Valve hot water lines omitted, it won't make a difference here and can either be connected or plugged)

Hope this makes more sense! Sorry again for the confusion :confused:
 
Looks good. Except if the heater is closed/off, then the expansion/purge tank isn't used?


Odie
The expansion tank is always in use as it has both a constant forced supply with return to the thermostat, its out of the loop of the heater.
 
looking at pauls diagram, it looks like he has it in the heater loop. so what you are saying is i should put the expansion tank in the bypass loop?

Odie
 
looking at pauls diagram, it looks like he has it in the heater loop. so what you are saying is i should put the expansion tank in the bypass loop?

Odie
Seems like it, it puts the expansion tank in the high pressure full flow side of the system.
 
Ok. Current plan. Reroute expansion to be on the bypass. If I have flow but still have the issue, test thermostat.

How do I fill the main system then?

Odie
 
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