b16, 2 steps forward, 1.5 steps back.

Posting here as it is a cooling issue that popped back up. Didn't mean to start a cooling thread on "what I did today" And Karl was nice enough to find it for me :)

Odie
 
Last time it sounded like the stat was the issue...

Since it was cooling just fine for a couple of years, to me that would rule out an architecture issue, and would seem to be much more likely a component failure issue.
 
so there are 2 things that are on my mind. 1. to get it back to cooling. 2. where did almost a gallon of coolant go. On #2, I have to wait for my pressure tester to get returned (loaned it out a few weeks ago) so that may be this weekend. that guy also has my leakdown tester so that will also have to wait. I did check on one of my big fears last night. I drained the oil. whew. no coolant in there. on #1. I did notice after a refilled it manually (I have a vacuum filler but it doesnt work well unless the system is almost empty) and started it up I did get it to 178 with no bubbles in the filler (I use one of those "no spill" fillers) but also noticed I wasnt seeing a change when the stat opens. checked the hose that comes from the radiator and could easily touch it. I also found my no touch thermometer died. so my next thought was the thermostat wasnt opening. I did bleed the system at the engine. (see diagram) and got some air out. I did notice late last night, after I drained the oil, which I dont have replacement oil (and filter why I am at it) that there is an elbow in the hose that goes from the intake to the thermostat housing. this bend is higher than the outlet, so maybe, with the coolant being low, an air pocket formed there. this is the one that shoots coolant directly on the Stat.

another thought I just had about #1. although I did check the bleeder on top of the radiator, I did so before I lifter the car up. why is that important? well with the air dam on the front, I need to lift the front first or I can only get the rear up about 4 inches before the air dam hits the ground. so lifting the front up could have pushed air back into the radiator. again. no oil to start it up, but can use a gravity feed to check it during my lunch today.

diagram..
turquoise: return from radiator. has a bleeder in it as it is the highest spot before going back down to the thermostat (one of my main air pockets before)
mud yellow: the thermostat.
Green yellow the the head to thermostat where I think there might be another air pocket
Main filler you can see the cap.
lower right you can see the corner of the overflow tank.

coolant.png




Odie
 
so there are 2 things that are on my mind. 1. to get it back to cooling. 2. where did almost a gallon of coolant go. On #2, I have to wait for my pressure tester to get returned (loaned it out a few weeks ago) so that may be this weekend. that guy also has my leakdown tester so that will also have to wait. I did check on one of my big fears last night. I drained the oil. whew. no coolant in there. on #1. I did notice after a refilled it manually (I have a vacuum filler but it doesnt work well unless the system is almost empty) and started it up I did get it to 178 with no bubbles in the filler (I use one of those "no spill" fillers) but also noticed I wasnt seeing a change when the stat opens. checked the hose that comes from the radiator and could easily touch it. I also found my no touch thermometer died. so my next thought was the thermostat wasnt opening. I did bleed the system at the engine. (see diagram) and got some air out. I did notice late last night, after I drained the oil, which I dont have replacement oil (and filter why I am at it) that there is an elbow in the hose that goes from the intake to the thermostat housing. this bend is higher than the outlet, so maybe, with the coolant being low, an air pocket formed there. this is the one that shoots coolant directly on the Stat.

another thought I just had about #1. although I did check the bleeder on top of the radiator, I did so before I lifter the car up. why is that important? well with the air dam on the front, I need to lift the front first or I can only get the rear up about 4 inches before the air dam hits the ground. so lifting the front up could have pushed air back into the radiator. again. no oil to start it up, but can use a gravity feed to check it during my lunch today.

diagram..
turquoise: return from radiator. has a bleeder in it as it is the highest spot before going back down to the thermostat (one of my main air pockets before)
mud yellow: the thermostat.
Green yellow the the head to thermostat where I think there might be another air pocket
Main filler you can see the cap.
lower right you can see the corner of the overflow tank.

View attachment 61700



Odie
I'd be more than happy to loan you my AirLift cooling system filler if you pay the shipping each way, although with the price of shipping these days, it just might be cheaper if you could borrow or rent one locally?
 
I'd be more than happy to loan you my AirLift cooling system filler if you pay the shipping each way, although with the price of shipping these days, it just might be cheaper if you could borrow or rent one locally?
Got one. Thats the vacuum type, correct? Love it! If I knew it was as empty as it was I would have used it. But I tried once when it wasn't empty and it wasn't pretty. It is what I will use if I can't find any reason why I am missing almost a gallon. Will just redrain and refill.
I swear by it for those that haven't used one. On any car. My best friend is an ex mechanic (arthritis took him put of that job) but does work on the side. Saves crazy amounts of time. I can't think of a time we had to burp it after using it.
I think you got me talked into sucking up and just draining it and refilling it.

Odie
 
may have found the leak. before I emptied and refilled, i put a pressure tester on it. 10 lbs. 5 min. stil 10 lbs. bummer. had to do a few things for work and didnt take it off. 1 hours later 5lbs and a small puddle. put 10 lbs back and traced it up to where a hose connected to the head sending it to the radiator. then I dumbly opened the expansion to check level and forgot there was 10 lbs still on a mostly full system... yeah. my virgin floor (pole barn was built last year and no spills) is virgin no more. time for a floor and engine compartment clean. unfortunately the clamp is out of reach without removing a few parts so this will happen later today. stay tuned.

Odie
 
may have found the leak. before I emptied and refilled, i put a pressure tester on it. 10 lbs. 5 min. stil 10 lbs. bummer. had to do a few things for work and didnt take it off. 1 hours later 5lbs and a small puddle. put 10 lbs back and traced it up to where a hose connected to the head sending it to the radiator. then I dumbly opened the expansion to check level and forgot there was 10 lbs still on a mostly full system... yeah. my virgin floor (pole barn was built last year and no spills) is virgin no more. time for a floor and engine compartment clean. unfortunately the clamp is out of reach without removing a few parts so this will happen later today. stay tuned.

Odie
Hope that's it Odie. Good luck
 
not done yet, but update. when I went to tighten it. I saw that if I clocked the clamp I could more easily reach it. I went to try to get a wrench on it instead of a screw driver and when I touched the head I could actually move it with my fingers. yeah it was that loose! tightened it back up. pressure tested it, stil lost a little over 2 hours but putting soapy water I saw it was from the pressure pump fitting. no drips during that time. today I am going to raise it up, empty it, and refill using the vacuum (air lift) dont think i will be able to drive it today with storms coming in. but could start it up and run it for awhile in the garage. If I can get away from work I should be living in the garage today between this and the spider.


Odie
 
Were you able to get that pressure pump fitting sealed? And for us non-Honda types, what is a pressure pump?
 
Were you able to get that pressure pump fitting sealed? And for us non-Honda types, what is a pressure pump?
I believe he is referring to the pump to apply pressure to the system, the leak is at the filler neck of the expansion tank.
 
I believe he is referring to the pump to apply pressure to the system, the leak is at the filler neck of the expansion tank.
close, remember this bastardized setup has 2 fill points. it is connected to a remote fill right net to the thermostat housing. and yes it is a hand pump connected to a cooling system to apply pressure to see where a leak may be. less dangerous that having to warm up the engine to get the pressure from heat

Odie
 
close, remember this bastardized setup has 2 fill points. it is connected to a remote fill right net to the thermostat housing. and yes it is a hand pump connected to a cooling system to apply pressure to see where a leak may be. less dangerous that having to warm up the engine to get the pressure from heat

Odie
Ha-ha, I thought you were referring to a pump of some type on the engine itself, not the testing pump. :D
 
Woo hoo! Thank you everyone for your help. Especially Dan. Drained, and refilled using the airlift. (Can't belive I forgot I had that) runs at a steady 180-186 Well at least in the garage. Fans kick in at 186 and brings it right back down. Several cycles.

Odie
Since it behaved for quite a while (years?) and then all of a sudden went bad, I couldn't see how this was a design situation...something had to have gone bad. Luckily you caught it before it got worse and while a bit maddening, all things considered it was an easy, cheeeep fix :)
 
Since it behaved for quite a while (years?) and then all of a sudden went bad, I couldn't see how this was a design situation...something had to have gone bad. Luckily you caught it before it got worse and while a bit maddening, all things considered it was an easy, cheeeep fix :)
I keep telling my brain that it was getting low because of the small leak, then finally just got an air bubble. the way the hoses are up and down leads to this being very susceptible to air pockets. still pondering how I can fix this situation for the future, probably custom bent stainless tubes to route a different way. Arent we a little mad working on old cars anyway? :)

Odie
 
I keep telling my brain that it was getting low because of the small leak, then finally just got an air bubble. the way the hoses are up and down leads to this being very susceptible to air pockets. still pondering how I can fix this situation for the future, probably custom bent stainless tubes to route a different way. Arent we a little mad working on old cars anyway? :)

Odie
If you think the hose clamp loosened due to thermal cycling or possibly vibration, maybe a style of clamp that is design for that specific situation? There are several styles of clamp that claim to be "constant tension" that you could consider.

For example: https://www.mcmaster.com/constant-tension-hose-clamps/
 
If you think the hose clamp loosened due to thermal cycling or possibly vibration, maybe a style of clamp that is design for that specific situation? There are several styles of clamp that claim to be "constant tension" that you could consider.

For example: https://www.mcmaster.com/constant-tension-hose-clamps/
You could also consider Oetiker clamps as many of these are set it and forget it until it is time to replace the hose or take the engine out. Oetikers are a bit inconvenient to remove (and destructive of the clamp) but very reliable over time.

I have also moved to clamps which have rolled edges to be compatible with silicone hoses. Gates makes the ones I have used and I picked them up in multipack boxes in the sizes I needed from Rockauto.com
 
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