Larry

True Classic
Apparently an X1/9 that sits for even just a few months can have not just the brake master cylinder start to leak, but the clutch master can as well.

Earlier today, I removed the pinch bolt, but have not had any luck in getting the shaft to slip right off. It seems rather determined not to do that. If I want to rebuild the pedal box, does the shaft need to be removed or can I just move it to the side and tie it off as mentioned in this thread: Removing The steering column, stuck...help!

I found this thread on rebuilding the Brake Box - Brake Box rebuild have some questions .

But is there any sort of wiki-ish article on the steps to Remove and replace the brake and clutch master cylinders?
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
I had the pedal box out and back in several times when I had problems with my brake master cylinder. I found that taking out the seat helped, but was by no means necessary. I did not remove the steering wheel / column on any of the iterations, and did not find it to be in the way.

I posted a few things in this thread, but I know much has been written about this process.

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rx1900

1981 X1/9
Apparently an X1/9 that sits for even just a few months can have not just the brake master cylinder start to leak, but the clutch master can as well.

Earlier today, I removed the pinch bolt, but have not had any luck in getting the shaft to slip right off. It seems rather determined not to do that. If I want to rebuild the pedal box, does the shaft need to be removed or can I just move it to the side and tie it off as mentioned in this thread: Removing The steering column, stuck...help!

I found this thread on rebuilding the Brake Box - Brake Box rebuild have some questions .

But is there any sort of wiki-ish article on the steps to Remove and replace the brake and clutch master cylinders?

Okay...yes lots has been written on this....but to confirm....as I just removed my pedal box last week....there is NO need to remove that pinch bolt and disconnect the steering column at that splined joint !!! Or to remove the steering column.....

Just undo those 2 nuts and 2 bolts holding the steering column up...and swing it over and out of the way. Easy. ...

Then undo the three brake hard lines that are pointing down from those junction blocks and gently push them out of the way.

Then undo the clutch hard line from the end of the clutch master and again push it gently out of the way.

Then pull off the 2 wires connectors on the brake light switch.

If..you will be replacing the reservoir hoses...then just cut all three of them off where they head out of the firewall.

Then undo the 2 nuts holding the pedal box to the firewall.

The entire pedal box assembly can now be wiggled out of the car and everything else can be done on the bench.

It is really quite easy and can be done in well under an hour.....
 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
To remove the steering shaft, try opening up the pinch clamp a little. You can wedge a large screwdriver (or similar wedge) in between the two ears that the bolt went through. That will push it open a bit and make getting the shaft out easier. Penetrating oil also helps a lot, everything on these cars rusts. I find it easier to do the pedal box job with the seat, center console, and steering column removed.
 

Larry

True Classic
Thanks @Dr.Jeff - I wound up not removing the shaft, but I appreciate your post.

Thanks @ng_randolph @rx1900. I got the pedal box out late Tuesday afternoon. I bungee corded my steering column to the shift lever.

Although on my '79, it was a little different.

I had 1 brake hard line facing up and 1 facing down - directly above/below each other (10mm) and one at the end of the clutch master (13mm).

And 2 clutch hard lines facing down.

I'm not (at the moment) planning on replacing the reservoir hoses so the connections were a bit of a challenge but they eventually cooperated.

Are the clutch and brake masters different on a '79 than on an '81?
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
It sounds like a PO has made modifications to your setup, perhaps you can post a some photos? There should not be two clutch hard lines, and the single clutch hard line should not be facing up or down, but straight towards the back of the car. For the brakes, you should have:

  • One hard line to the front left wheel
  • One hard line to the front right wheel
  • One hard line for both rear wheels (with a tee in the engine compartment).
The only practical difference I am aware of between model years is the diameter of the hose nipples for the supply hoses, Early cars had smaller diameter, but I don't know when the change was made. The nipples can be transferred from the old master, should there be a problem.
 

rx1900

1981 X1/9
Not that it needs any validation....but yes Bjorn is 100% correct !!

I think Larry you are a bit confused about the lines...due to the junction blocks and jumper lines. Look again and you can figure it out...

And Larry...I would suggest that perhaps it is wise...now that you this far in.....and probably dont want to do this job again 😭 that you also replace the reservoir hoses. On mine I found a black mud inside the hoses and the cylinders that seemed to me to be from a breakdown of the inside of the soft hoses after 40 years. Dont think you want all that going into your new cylinders !!

For all you out there......I have come to the following conclusions to prevent having to do this job again:

When the pedal box is out - replace both clutch and brake masters with QUALITY new units. AND replace the reservoir hoses at the same time. And clean out the reservoirs as best you can

Flush the fluids through every 2 years or so.

If the car is in storage - like in the winter or not being used - once a month or so jump in the car and pump the pedals a few times to prevent the seals from sticking in one spot.
 
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Larry

True Classic
It sounds like a PO has made modifications to your setup, perhaps you can post a some photos? There should not be two clutch hard lines, and the single clutch hard line should not be facing up or down, but straight towards the back of the car.
I only took 1 photo when the pedal box was in the car. This photo shows the clutch lines - which were on the passenger side of pedal box. I misspoke (mistyped) when I said the clutch lines were facing down. They actually face up.

IMG_9642.jpeg

For the brakes, you should have:
  • One hard line to the front left wheel
  • One hard line to the front right wheel
  • One hard line for both rear wheels (with a tee in the engine compartment).
The only practical difference I am aware of between model years is the diameter of the hose nipples for the supply hoses, Early cars had smaller diameter, but I don't know when the change was made. The nipples can be transferred from the old master, should there be a problem.

I had 3 hard lines for the brakes.
 

rx1900

1981 X1/9
I only took 1 photo when the pedal box was in the car. This photo shows the clutch lines - which were on the passenger side of pedal box. I misspoke (mistyped) when I said the clutch lines were facing down. They actually face up.

No, no Larry.....those are NOT clutch lines !!!

Those lines in your pic - going up into that brass distribution block - are BRAKE lines. !!

The line closest to the camera goes back inside the car alongside the tunnel and goes to a splitter box in the engine compartment. From there to each rear brake caliper hose.

The line furthest from the camera goes over to the right front caliper hose.

The clutch line - there is only one of course - comes straight out of the end of the clutch master cylinder. It is a bigger diameter line with a 13mm ( wrench size ) fitting on it.
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
Those are brake lines, and the brass-colored block is just a junction block. Looking at the pedal box from the top, you should see jumper lines to the brake master.
 

Larry

True Classic
No, no Larry.....those are NOT clutch lines !!!

Those lines in your pic - going up into that brass distribution block - are BRAKE lines. !!

The line closest to the camera goes back inside the car alongside the tunnel and goes to a splitter box in the engine compartment. From there to each rear brake caliper hose.

The line furthest from the camera goes over to the right front caliper hose.

The clutch line - there is only one of course - comes straight out of the end of the clutch master cylinder. It is a bigger diameter line with a 13mm ( wrench size ) fitting on it.
That's what I get for not proofing before I click 'Post Reply...'

I had an early morning meeting and a stupid late bedtime and was... um... trying to ignore the meeting while typing responses.

But even so, you said earlier in the thread...

"Then undo the three brake hard lines that are pointing down from those junction blocks and gently push them out of the way.


On the brake lines, @ng_randolph's photo shows 2 hard lines facing up. That's what I posted (even though I got brake and clutch switched - yes I know it would be a big mess up if I put the car back together but this is just talking right now) - that I have 2 lines facing upwards.

The Clutch master cylinder - has 1 line at the end (13mm) and if you look at this photo (a screenshot from @ng_randolph's photo)
Screen Shot 2021-07-21 at 5.05.58 PM.jpg


There's a line facing up which goes to the left front brake.

There's also a line on top of the pictured junction on my car - which is not near me to provide a photo - has a hard line that goes back through the firewall.

So when you said facing down, I took that to mean the the lines that screw into the junction blocks. So I have 1 facing down, 2 facing up and 1 at the end of the cylinder.

Or am I reading the photo and your intent wrong?
 

Larry

True Classic
Those are brake lines, and the brass-colored block is just a junction block. Looking at the pedal box from the top, you should see jumper lines to the brake master.
I'm sorry... "jumper lines?" I hear jumper and I think electrical... Are the jumper lines you're referring to the hard lines that are on top of the junction block?
 

DanielForest

True Classic
There are some interesting thread about rebuilding the complete pedal box. For instance, in this thread you will get a pic of the old set-up with the orientation of the hoses and lines, than a little down on the messages, Jimmyx showed us the job he did.


There a some threads like this. I printed a few for myself when I had to do the same and they were very helpful.
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
This is the setup on mine. When you are ready to reassemble, make all the connections between master cylinder and junction blocks before you mount the junction blocks. Then snug up the connections after you have the junction blocks bolted on. What you can't see in the photo below (but what is visible in the photo I posted earlier) is that there is a spacer between the brake master cylinder and the brass colored junction block.

When you put the pedal box back in the car, make sure the supply hoses don't get kinked above the pedal box. This can easily happen, and makes bleeding the brakes / clutch nearly impossible.

Getting the hard line fittings started after the pedal box is in can be a bit fiddly, particularly the clutch line. There are two long bolts holding the master cylinders to the pedal box. Before attempting to get the clutch hard line started, I loosen the nut on the left bolt in the photo below. Then I undo the nut completely on the other through bolt and pull the bolt out far enough that the clutch master is free to pivot up/down. That way it is easier to get the the flare nut threads started. After the clutch line is finger tight, I reinstall the through bolt and nut, but leave it loose. Only after all three brake hard lines are successfully mated with the junction blocks do I torque the through-bolts to spec.

DSCN0399.JPG
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
In this screenshot of your photo, the junction for "to left front brake" - what's the orientation for that junction block? It looks like the shorter side is at the bottom? I ask because I've already removed the master cylinder but didn't make a note of which way that's oriented.
You can probably see this in my photo, but all three brake lines should be pointing in the same direction.
 

Larry

True Classic
You can probably see this in my photo, but all three brake lines should be pointing in the same direction.
Sorry... the junction box on the clutch master cylinder has a hard line that comes in from the bottom and from the top. I disconnected both - the top and bottom and removed that junction box from the assembly. The junction box doesn't seem to have the center bolt hole amidships so I'm trying to figure out which side has the longer side - the top or the bottom.

In this screenshot of your photo (that it looks like I didn't include in my post):
Screen Shot 2021-07-21 at 5.15.26 PM.jpg


it looks like the longer side faces upwards and the shorter side faces the floor of the car?
 

ng_randolph

Bjorn H
The photo is from a somewhat awkward vantage point, see mark-ups below. Also, the photo I posted of the pedal box out of the car shows the orientation of this junction block more clearly.


DSCN0088MM.jpg
 
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