Brake fluid reservoir

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
I agree. But don't the hoses come straight out, not angled on the stock X reservoir?
Sorry, I realize it doesn't matter. I'm just thinking out loud.
 

kmead

Old enough to know better
I agree. But don't the hoses come straight out, not angled on the stock X reservoir?
Sorry, I realize it doesn't matter. I'm just thinking out loud.
On the OE reservoir the hoses come out facing 180 from each other, so having to make the 180 to get out from under may be causing the angle you see.
41D0F9DE-A58B-42E7-95B4-D5267E59868F.jpeg
 

Regan Burba

True Classic
What is the size of the nipple on the Lada reservoir that some of you have used? I just rebuilt brake/clutch box and replaced the remote hoses. The brake hoses are the 7-8 mm,or actually 5/16. The reservoirs I’ve seen have 6mm nipples. I definitely do not want to replace them again to accommodate reservoir.
My reservoir is “ok” right now but may be an issue soon.
 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
The OE reservoir looks identical to mine on my car.Those aren't made anymore?
For the most part, no. Not too long ago I recall someone possibly finding a new one from one of the European suppliers. I just looked and all I see are "replacements" which are not the same as the original item. Here are some examples...
http://www.x19partsholland.nl/CATAL...D/13985/CatID/626/language/en-US/Default.aspx
https://www.x19spares.co.uk/brake-fluid-reservoir-replacement-583-p.asp
http://montehospital.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=12&products_id=158

All of these are similar but not the same as the stock one you have. However it is difficult to tell just how close the mounting bracket will be to what you have. So they may be a relatively straightforward replacement, or they may require some modification of the bracket. Given the cost of them, plus shipping expense from Europe, I'd stick with one of the local options. They also are not exact replacements but should be no worse off.

The other option is to buy a good used stock one. Personally I'm not sure I would, as these are prone to cracking due to their age. But a really clean one may last you fine. One possible source for used parts might be the guys at Midwest Bayless, but you should call them to see if they have one:
https://www.midwest-bayless.com/c-21-brakes_Fiat-X19-0.aspx

Unfortunately that's sort of the point of this whole thread, finding a suitable replacement reservoir is not exactly a straightforward thing unless you can do a little modification work to make something work. There have been a couple of other threads describing how people have gone about doing this. Maybe that will help to see what's involved. Here is one example, I'm sure there are others:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/pedal-box-and-fluid-reservoirs.32869/
 

Jeff Stich

True Classic
Here is a picture of my reservoir. Sorry cars been in storage and I have much to do. The leak made this mess on the paint soon after painted before storage. Will this reservoir fit or can you tell with this picture. It looks like the same one. Does it matter which way the hoses connect?
You have an original Fiat brake reservoir, but it's mounted in a non-original location. The metal strap shown holding the reservoir in place looks like an original Fiat bracket, but that's not how the bracket is supposed to fit the reservoir. Both the reservoir & bracket were originally installed on the passenger side of the car, in the far outer corner of the windshield drain area. There's a flat metal support with 2 studs at the top/inner edge of the fender, the reservoir fits against this support & each outer end of the bracket fits onto 1 of those studs. Here's a pic showing one of my replacement reservoirs mounted exactly as the OE Fiat reservoir should be, using the OE bracket as well:

20130715_115815_zpsab849bfe.jpg

The metal bracket is normally U-shaped & fits around the outside "waist" of the reservoir, like this:

OEbracket.jpg xbr04.JPG xbr06.JPG

It looks to me like your OE Fiat reservoir is ok (ie: not cracked on top), but you might want to remove/clean/inspect it nevertheless. With some cleaning & careful rebending back to its OE shape, the metal bracket should be reusable, as well. Your fluid leak is likely due to someone using the wrong type & size of hose (fuel hose instead of brake fluid hose). Relocating your reservoir back to the OE location & replacing the hoses with the correct type & size should fix your issue(s).
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
There was no content in your post quoting mine.

Yours has been moved like mine, but with a piece of generic strap steel. Whether you move it to the original location is or re-work it in the current spot so it's not such a mess (higher up - the feed hoses cannot work if the reserviour below the feed hose).

In my pic you had linked you can see the hoses run downhill from the reserviour nipples to the bulkhead pass through. They can be level, but not lower as yours is now



You will have to drop the pedal box in order to replace the reservior hoses with the proper spec. You can see in your pic they used fuel line, which as Jeff pointed out, is not brake-fluid approved and will deteriorate and leak as you have found. Shame since now you have much rust to deal with - which will be difficult to remove/treat in all the panel seams.

20200409_102633.jpg
 
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Kathryn A Jeremiah

Daily Driver
You have an original Fiat brake reservoir, but it's mounted in a non-original location. The metal strap shown holding the reservoir in place looks like an original Fiat bracket, but that's not how the bracket is supposed to fit the reservoir. Both the reservoir & bracket were originally installed on the passenger side of the car, in the far outer corner of the windshield drain area. There's a flat metal support with 2 studs at the top/inner edge of the fender, the reservoir fits against this support & each outer end of the bracket fits onto 1 of those studs. Here's a pic showing one of my replacement reservoirs mounted exactly as the OE Fiat reservoir should be, using the OE bracket as well:

View attachment 30766

The metal bracket is normally U-shaped & fits around the outside "waist" of the reservoir, like this:

View attachment 30767 View attachment 30768 View attachment 30769

It looks to me like your OE Fiat reservoir is ok (ie: not cracked on top), but you might want to remove/clean/inspect it nevertheless. With some cleaning & careful rebending back to its OE shape, the metal bracket should be reusable, as well. Your fluid leak is likely due to someone using the wrong type & size of hose (fuel hose instead of brake fluid hose). Relocating your reservoir back to the OE location & replacing the hoses with the correct type & size should fix your issue(s).
Relocating the reservoir seems difficult because there are no hoses on the passenger side. Cant I leave the reservoir in the place it is and since I am a lady excuse me before I go doing any thing aren't those hoses beginning at the brake inside the car. I have spent a large amount recently on the car and want to do this part at home with a friend who can do it..
 

Kathryn A Jeremiah

Daily Driver
Relocating the reservoir seems difficult because there are no hoses on the passenger side. Cant I leave the reservoir in the place it is and since I am a lady excuse me before I go doing any thing aren't those hoses beginning at the brake inside the car. I have spent a large amount recently on the car and want to do this part at home with a friend who can do it..
A shop mechanic put those hoses in shame on him.
 

Kathryn A Jeremiah

Daily Driver
There was no content in your post quoting mine.

Yours has been moved like mine, but with a piece of generic strap steel. Whether you move it to the original location is or re-work it in the current spot so it's not such a mess (higher up - the feed hoses cannot work if the reserviour below the feed hose).

In my pic you had linked you can see the hoses run downhill from the reserviour nipples to the bulkhead pass through. They can be level, but not lower as yours is now



You will have to drop the pedal box in order to replace the reservior hoses with the proper spec. You can see in your pic they used fuel line, which as Jeff pointed out, is not brake-fluid approved and will deteriorate and leak as you have found. Shame since now you have much rust to deal with - which will be difficult to remove/treat in all the panel seams.

View attachment 30774
What is the pedal box. Want to understand it all so don't have mechanics do it wrong again.
 

DanielForest

True Classic
The pedal box is the mount where the 3 brake and clutch pedal are attached to and where the brake master cylinder and clutch master cylinder are bolted on. Removing the pedal box is an easiest way of swapping the master cylinders or hoses. But it is also known as one hell of a job, especially if you are not a contorsionnist. (there are much better pictures of it on the forum!)
20151024_105210.jpg
 

lookforjoe

True Classic
The fluid lines are attached to the top of the MC's, which are not accessible unless it is dropped



This is in place - two nuts on studs in the back, and two that also hold the steering column under the dash

 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
Cant I leave the reservoir in the place it is
Yes you can. And in fact I personally prefer to have it mounted where yours is. However if the replacement reservoir that you get isn't identical to your old one (e.g. the positions of the mounting bracket or hose connections) then it may require a little manipulation of things. Not really difficult but might involve a little fabrication work to make a new bracket for example. Your friend should be able to take care of that. The part that is more difficult is replacing those hoses, which apparently must be done (if they are not the correct type of hose - more on that below). The reason it is difficult is the other ends of them are really buried up under the dash inside the car. In order to get to them the entire assembly that holds the master cylinders (brake and clutch hydraulics) and pedals needs to be lowered down (that assembly is what we commonly call the "pedal box"). This is a job that has been discussed many times; perhaps review one of the threads that describes the process in order to get a better idea what's involved:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....and-clutch-master-cylinders.29420/#navigation

You'll notice that thread is primarily about replacing the master cylinders, but most of it applies the same to replacing just the hoses. And unfortunately there is a decent chance that your master cylinders (brake and clutch) should also be replaced at the same time. Sadly these seem to go bad when the vehicle sits undriven as your has - even if they were new when it was parked. Especially considering the wrong hoses were installed on your car; that wrong type of hose dissolves internally and contaminates the master cylinders. And the bulk of the work to replace the hoses is the same as for replacing the master cylinders. So it is actually more economical to replace everything while the job is being done (this isn't a job anyone wants to do twice).

And here is more about those hoses:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/brake-fluid-hydraulic-fluid-reservoir-tubing.21848/

https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....-clutch-fluid-reservoir-line-with-what.32023/
 

Kathryn A Jeremiah

Daily Driver
Yes you can. And in fact I personally prefer to have it mounted where yours is. However if the replacement reservoir that you get isn't identical to your old one (e.g. the positions of the mounting bracket or hose connections) then it may require a little manipulation of things. Not really difficult but might involve a little fabrication work to make a new bracket for example. Your friend should be able to take care of that. The part that is more difficult is replacing those hoses, which apparently must be done (if they are not the correct type of hose - more on that below). The reason it is difficult is the other ends of them are really buried up under the dash inside the car. In order to get to them the entire assembly that holds the master cylinders (brake and clutch hydraulics) and pedals needs to be lowered down (that assembly is what we commonly call the "pedal box"). This is a job that has been discussed many times; perhaps review one of the threads that describes the process in order to get a better idea what's involved:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....and-clutch-master-cylinders.29420/#navigation

You'll notice that thread is primarily about replacing the master cylinders, but most of it applies the same to replacing just the hoses. And unfortunately there is a decent chance that your master cylinders (brake and clutch) should also be replaced at the same time. Sadly these seem to go bad when the vehicle sits undriven as your has - even if they were new when it was parked. Especially considering the wrong hoses were installed on your car; that wrong type of hose dissolves internally and contaminates the master cylinders. And the bulk of the work to replace the hoses is the same as for replacing the master cylinders. So it is actually more economical to replace everything while the job is being done (this isn't a job anyone wants to do twice).

And here is more about those hoses:
https://xwebforums.com/forum/index.php?threads/brake-fluid-hydraulic-fluid-reservoir-tubing.21848/

https://xwebforums.com/forum/index....-clutch-fluid-reservoir-line-with-what.32023/
THANKS I ASK MY PREVIOUS TO REDP THE BRAKES BUT HR REALLY DIDNT WANT TO SO NOW I'm looking for it to be done anyway as I wished. Thanks
 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
Assuming he was the one that did the brakes previously, I'm not completely surprised the mechanic didn't want to redo them. It's not a fun job, plus I'm sure he did not want to lose more money redoing his own mistakes. If I understood correctly it has been a long time since the prior work was done, so I imagine there is little recourse at this point. But if he used the wrong type of hose and it caused more problems, then ideally he should be responsible. Unfortunately these sort of stories are not uncommon in the automotive repair industry, but sorry that it happened to you.

Maybe someone else can think of a better option than dropping the whole pedal assembly and replacing everything, however I suspect that may be the case. Do the brakes work at all now?
 
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