Brake Problems...

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User1

RETIRED Admin, pm OFF
<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Brake Problems...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001 at 8:05 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rory [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, for as long as I've had my x (about 5 months now) the brakes have been a bit weird. First, they squeal horribly. Secondly, with sustained pressure on the pedal (ie. at a stoplight) the pedal will not release all the way when my foot is taken off and I can hear the brakes squeak as they rub against the calipers. This situation usually gets better if I have a couple hard breaking sessions right afterwards. Does this sound like the master cylinder? I just ran a search on old articles in the forum on this issue and I have my Haynes manual so I feel comfortable doing the job, but I'd like to know if this could just be air in the system. Is it worth trying bleeding the brakes before I go ahead with the cylinder? Thanks for any guesses! Cheers!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It's the hoses<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001, 8:57 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rory,

Does the PEDAL not release and stay down, or does the pedal come up but the brakes don't release? If the pedal stays down, it's a probalem with the pedal. Is the pedal return spring in place? Can you move teh pedal by hand a little bit freely?

If the pedal does come back, I bet it's your brake hoses. They are old and have swollen on the inside. Take a look at them and you can probably see that they look old.

Replace all 4 and enjoy much better brakes.

Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->How ?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 12:37 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Ulix,
Still trying to figure that one out ! A swelled hose preventing full pedal retraction ( If return spring(s) are good )? Elaborate bitte ? I have the fronts to do next and just completed the rears. I did notice that besides bore fouling that there is a chance for the support bracket and its locking block to bind...especially if it has burrs. If Rory is reading this he'll want to check the runout on the disks too; don't you think ? Out for now,
lezesig '79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hoses?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 6:42 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->It is possible that the hoses are causing this problem, I have seen it in rare instances. But what is more likely is the calipers are in need of rebuilding.

All too often, the pistons are sticking in the caliper bores. This can be the result of the piston seals swelling and/or dirt and corrosion building up in between the piston and caliper bore and causing the piston to drag and not return fully after releasing the peddle. Another cause is if the caliper sliders are corroded and do not allow the caliper to re-center itself after releasing the brake. This causes the outside pad to drag badly. Cleaning the caliper and slider inserts and appling a thin coating of antisize will correct this problem.

Steve
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->OK, could be the calipers too<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 9:52 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I've just personally never incountered sticking calipers, but bad hoses a couple of times.

The hose swells up, but with the force from you leg you can push fluid through the constriction. The much smaller force (pressure) from the retracting caliper is not enough to push fluid through the other way.

I would look at the hoses, flex them a little bit in your hand. If they have cracks and look old, replace them. Rebuilding the calipers is not hard or expensive.

Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "k";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("JimL"); // --> </SCRIPT>JimL <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->or it could be the calipers are sticking<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 1 2001, 9:39 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->A bit of corrosion in the caliper's bore is causing them to stick with the brakes partially applied. A few hard stops heats the calipers up enough to allow them to get the additional clearance they need to retract fully. If this is the problem, the cure is rebuild 'em or replace 'em. Either way, a good bleed is a good place to start, I think.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Tony Natoli"); // --> </SCRIPT>Tony Natoli <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 12:52 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Rory... Happy New Year!

I just spent about 9 hours (TWO of us!) on a 1975 124 of Christ Blunt's a few weeks before Christmas.

(I found the brakes to be IDENTICAL in configuration, if not literally, to the X1/9's.)

It had been sitting... in Washington State, with the emergency brake on... for years!

Nothing was technically "difficult" to do... but EVERYTHING was rusted, stuck, corroded, swollen, or flat-%$#@@# didn't work.

(LR wheel wouldn't stop, LR wheel wouldn't turn free as the E-Brake was jammed... I think the RF was the only brake that did any real work.)

After a cursory look... I said to Chris... let's "wholesale" it and do it ALL, and do it right! We put the car up on four stands and hammered everything off. The only thing left on the car were the steel brake lines... which we flushed.

Rebuilt all four calipers, replaced all four rotors and pads... and all 5 flex lines. Still have the M/C to do.

Your problem doesn't sound like an air bleed problem... more like sticky, dirty, or badly worn pads.

If so... your car (and you) probably DESERVE a complete overhaul.

Pads, rotors, flex lines, caliper kits, and M/C kits would run no more than 200 delivered... And you'll learn more about brakes than you ever wanted to know!

Let us know what ya find!

Later,




Tony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rory[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well, here's what I'm going to do...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 1:24 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->First, let me thank everyone for their posts and advice. It sounds like I was on the wrong lead. Just to clear things up a bit, (I think Ulix asked about this..) the brake pedal returns to the top, but the brakes don't. Thats the best way of putting it. I guess I misspoke earlier. After the prolonged braking, if I put my foot back down on the brake, there is about an inch of completely free play (as opposed to none, before) and the brakes rub lightly even with no braking by me. So the course of action I will take is to check the hoses and replace with (steel braided lines? what do you think guys...availiable at obert's) if necessary. I will also rebuild all four calipers and I already know that the rear pads should be replaced as they are almost done. Along with this I will bleed the system and check the rotors. Sounds pretty solid to me. Virtually everything will be replaced but the mc. Its funny too, how I'm happier doing all this work than I would be knowing I just had to replace the mc!!
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Happy New Years to everyone!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Tony[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Good choice, but...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 2:09 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rory...

Now that all 4 calipers and flex lines will withstand the pressures exerted... where is the new "weak link" and the next most likely point of failure?

Might as well do the M/C also... and while yur under there... the Clutch M/C. Each kit cost me 6 bucks from Wrenchead.com... getting them out is the only difficult part.

That too can be eased by removing the steering wheel and the drivers seat, then filling the floor with old pillows and laying a blanket over the sill.

Once done... bleed by "cracking the line" going to each caliper, and slave cylinder first... then use the bleeders... and DON'T FORGET to bench bleed both M/C's first before installing them. (Tape the openings before installing to keep the mess to a minimum.) Every little bit helps!

As for the steel braid vs. rubber flex lines... the rubber ones have a steel braid sandwiched in between two layers of rubber. I believe the "steel braid lines" have a rubber core... look cool, but I don't think they really last any longer or are any "better".
Price and looks would be my considerations...

Hey.... yur gonna feel GREAT when this is all done... stop great too!

Later,



Tony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->That's strange<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 3:01 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 45px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->You say:
After the prolonged braking, if I put my foot back down on the brake, there is about an inch of completely free play (as opposed to none, before) and the brakes rub lightly even with no braking by me.

Weird. Why would there by more free play when the calipers are sticking or the hoses are the problem? Wouldn't the m/c just refill from the reservoir on the backstroke and give you a hard pedal again on the next push even though the brakes are still sticking?

You might want to do a little more investigating to see if the m/c is sticking.

I just remembered a diagnostic trick.
Get the brakes to stick, then undo the line between the rubber hose and the caliper. If the brake is now still sticking, it's the caliper. If not, it's either the hose or the m/c. Now get the brakes to stick again. Now undo the line between m/c and hose. If it still sticks, it's the hose, otherwise the m/c!

[SIZE=+2]Ulix
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[SIZE=-1]http://www.mirafiori.com/~ulix [/SIZE]

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rory[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->guys...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 7:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Well first off I'll reply to Tony. Thanks for that insight... I'm really trying to avoid the mc at all costs, but that might not be the best move. I already have a clutch mc. When I bought the car, the clutch hydraulics didn't work so I knew it was either the mc or the slave. Replaced the slave and it worked. Which was good because I tried to replace the mc, but gave up (too easily of course!) due to corroded bolts and such. So I've still got the mc around. I'll probably just buy a new brake mc if it turns out to be the culprit. In any case, I should probably just replace all brake components just because the mc will probably go at some point in the not to distant future anyways so why not do it now and get it over with. However (to Ulix) Thanks for the great diagnostic trick! I will indeed try this. If it turns out it is not the mc, I may replace it anyways though. I guess it all depends on how ambitious I'm feeling!
One more question while we're on the brake subject. Seeing as how I plan to autocross and do track driving events, do you guys feel that slotted brake rotors will improve braking in these conditions? Are the stock rotors enough? I plan to use semi-metallic pads, so I'm sure that will help. Thanks for all your advice!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Tony[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Pay me now... or pay me later...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 8:27 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->HA!

Hey... what ya need is a partner and a 6 pack... sure makes the work go easier. What a hobby!

As far as the brakes go... I don't race mine but do know that if ya go to the metallics for the street... they will generally perform POORLY 'cause they gotta be HOT to work best!

Being HOT will surely shorten the life or warp the stock rotors. I find that a good set of pads and new rotors are MORE than enough stopping power for the street... and reliable. If you do run the metallics, I would go with the drilled HI-PERFORMANCE rotors, not just "drilled" rotors... but I think you'll be disappointed if you use it mostly for the street. You'll love them on the track though.

What ever ya do... If ya can... try to find a matched "set". That is, rotors designed to work with certain pads... I once installed "semi-metallics" on my stock Toyota Van with the stock rotors and ended up wearing down the rotors and NOT the pads! That's the expensive way to learn!

Later,



Tony

Later,



Tony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Bob Dundon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Bob Dundon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->MC Replacement Note<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 7:22 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hi Rory....If you are going to replace the MC, it would be a good idea to check the rubber hose from the reservoir to the MC. I bleed my brakes last year and found the fluid to be very black, the cause was the rubber hose rotting on the inside. It is not overly difficult to replace the hose once you have the MC out. It would probably be advisable to replace the clutch hose at the same time.

Good Luck...
happy.gif
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Happy New Year All,
Bob<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Where did you get the hose?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:07 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->This hose is quite expensive ($6.50 per foot!) if you can find it. You can NOT use fuel line as it will be eaten by the brake fluid (yum).

Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "g";n54_em = n54_em + "f";n54_em = n54_em + "y";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "t"; document.write("Steven Lawson"); // --> </SCRIPT>Steven Lawson <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hose<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 10:28 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I don't know if it's the same size as Fiat, but when I replaced it in my '57 baja bug I bought it at a VW parts store (Kymco). The hose was blue.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Bob Dundon"); // --> </SCRIPT>Bob Dundon <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Brake Hose.....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 5 2001, 4:36 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I went to NAPA and talked with them about the brake hose, I was advised that their fuel line is used in the trucking industry for brake line. I bought their 7/16" fuel line and installed it, I will check to see if there is any problem when I rebuild the calipers this year.

Later,
Bob<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I don't know<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 6 2001, 10:46 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have heard from at least two people first hand (or is that second hand?) that they did this and after a while had black bits of rubber all through their braking system!

It would be nice to find info from the manufacturer of the fuel hose saying that it is brake fluid resistent.

Ulix<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Bob Dundon[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hose....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 6 2001, 11:52 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I'll find out soon..I need to fix the emergency brake and I'll check the fluid out of the MC. I have a spare piece of hose, I'll check with the manuf, as you suggested. I'll let you know.

Bob<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Brake upgrades<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:12 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Rory,

I agree that the stock brakes are good when in good shape. Sometimes the rotors glaze and sanding them with coarse sandpaper will make them work much better.

On the rear, I would probably stick with stock pads, because the rears never get hot.

For the front, you could use Axxis pads (I currently use them) or the "Green Stuff" pads, I have heard good things about them. Slotted rotors will help in the rain, I don't know if they really make a difference in the dry. I would never buy drilled rotors of the original size.

Ulix
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Warren[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have BREMBO Sport slotted rotors.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 3:56 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->They work way way better than stock, I am in the process of getting some UNO turbo vented disks and calipers. I hope they will work better than the slotted. I also heard that cross drilled rotors don't do much acept cut down on the braking surface . ( that's bad, I think.) But I will recomend the slotted rotors.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Warren[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I have BREMBO Sport slotted rotors.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 3:57 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->They work way way better than stock, I am in the process of getting some UNO turbo vented disks and calipers. I hope they will work better than the slotted. I also heard that cross drilled rotors don't do much acept cut down on the braking surface . ( that's bad, I think.) But I will recomend the slotted rotors.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Brake Upgrades<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 6:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 90px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
Stay away from the drilled rotors. I have a set (they were on a car I bought), they do nothing but spend your money faster. If you are autocrossing the car, the stock rotors are more than adequate. Also, it is very likely that drilled or slotted rotors are illegal (depending on what class you are running in).

I have used stock rotors with Repco MetalMaster pads on the front of my racecar for years. Lately, I have been using the Carbotech Green Compound on the rear and like them alot. And if you don't think the rears do anything on an X, I have a photo of my racecar (at an open track day at a road course) with both the front and rear rotors glowing bright orange through the wheels. The stock rotors will take a tremendous amount of heat without warping. They will easily take all of the heat the Axxis or Repco pads can generate.

Always go with new rotors, never turn them.

Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Warren[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I am lucky, in Canada we don't consider rotors in stock or S.S. <NT><!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:28 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Rory[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->there's more!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:37 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey guys,
Had a chat with Chris Obert today and he says the first thing to check in my case is the pedal pushrod adjustment so that it is making complete contact with the mc. Then to check the hoses and calipers. If it was the mc the pedal would go to the floor under light sustained pressure due to a leak. Also, if the rear circuit was leaking, the mc would be dripping fluid. If the front was leaking, the reservoir would be overflowing. THEREFORE... I'm going with that. A few people had this diagnosed correctly from the posts.
As far as pads and rotors go... Chris sells the green stuff pads and the axxis pads I belive. I'll probably forgo the slotted rotors for now ($160 compared to $60 for negligible perfomance gains). Hopefully I'll complete all this work by the weekend or early next week. I'll run a post when it's done to let you all know how it went and how the new setup feels. Thanks again to all of you! Happy New Year!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Warren[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Take stock rotors and have them grooved.( they have to be new).....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:46 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->The local race shop here in town will groove them I think for about 15-20$. and stock rotors are 15$.( last time I checked.)( this is also in Canadian funds)<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "v";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e"; document.write("Matthias Stiller"); // --> </SCRIPT>Matthias Stiller <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->turning rotors<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 10:51 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->As Steve pointed out, never turn stock rotors. The stock rotors are new so cheap it really doesn't make sense to turn them. Furthermore I don't think the rotors are designed to be turned over, since they are not really thick.

Regards

Matthias<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Glowing red<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 11:16 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Steve,

that's cool. You are right, I wouldn't have thought that the rears get that hot. That was with Axxis in the front and stock in the rear?

Can you tell me where you buy the Carbotech ones and how much they are?

BTW, I bought a set of rear calipers with the bigger pistons (38mm instead of 35mm) but haven't installed them yet.

Ulix
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Brakes<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 4 2001, 4:01 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix,

I have been using the MetalMasters up front and the CarboTech Green compound on the rear. The Carbotech green compound is very soft. I used them to change the brake bias more to the rear. I can actually get the rears to lock first in ideal conditions. This is with stock calipers and no bias adjuster. I have found that, with this setup, running on some of the tracks that are harder on brakes, that I need to use a simple cooling duct to cool the brakes. I would bet that if I switched to something like Cool Carbon or Porterfield pads that the problem would go away.

Carbotech runs ads in Grassroots Motorsports and SportsCar. If you need a phone number let me know. Oh, and they have a new, even softer pad, called the "Panther Pad". Haven't tried them yet.

I like the larger piston conversion on the rear of the X, but I can't use it on my racecar because the SP rules won't allow alternate calipers. Note, you will get a slightly longer peddle as a result.

Steve
1x3
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Brakes<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 4 2001, 4:02 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Ulix,

I have been using the MetalMasters up front and the CarboTech Green compound on the rear. The Carbotech green compound is very soft. I used them to change the brake bias more to the rear. I can actually get the rears to lock first in ideal conditions. This is with stock calipers and no bias adjuster. I have found that, with this setup, running on some of the tracks that are harder on brakes, that I need to use a simple cooling duct to cool the brakes. I would bet that if I switched to something like Cool Carbon or Porterfield pads that the problem would go away.

Carbotech runs ads in Grassroots Motorsports and SportsCar. If you need a phone number let me know. Oh, and they have a new, even softer pad, called the "Panther Pad". Haven't tried them yet.

I like the larger piston conversion on the rear of the X, but I can't use it on my racecar because the SP rules won't allow alternate calipers. Note, you will get a slightly longer peddle as a result.

Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "p";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "z";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "s";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "m"; document.write("Paul Stoltze"); // --> </SCRIPT>Paul Stoltze <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Why don't drilled rotors work?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 5 2001, 9:07 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 105px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I would have thought that drilled rotors allow for gas expansion and escape from the friction surface, allow for better rotor cooling, and reduce unsprung weight. Is this not the case?

Paul <!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Steve Hoelscher[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Drilled Rotors, the ugly truth.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 6 2001, 8:01 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->
As for allowing the surface gas to escape, slotting works better. Much like the "gatorback" tread patterns of modern rain tires.

As for cooling, the brake rotors ability to absorb heat is directly affected by mass. The more mass, the more heat it can absorb. Drilling only reduces the mass of a non-vented rotor (and the friction surface area). If the rotors were vented, that is two friction surfaces separated by a ribbed center, then the rotors should be either drilled or have an opening at the hub to provide airflow. The vented rotor works just like the water pump in your motor. The vanes pump air outward as it rotates. The center opening or the holes drilled in the surface, allow air to flow into the vanes and cool the rotor.

Steve
<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]lezesig[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Came close<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 8 2001, 12:37 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Received the new OEM solid rotors that had a slight film of cosmoline on them. Inspected the machinging and did they look good ! Very nice finished mass from the factory. I was actually impressed. Very nice quality. Put those new rotors up on the drill press and started getting the sharp nitrited bits out and was beginning to figure how I would lay out the drill pattern. The nautilus type spiral pattern seemed the best to produce. Went to get the center punch then backed off from the project for a few minutes to rethink the task. Make a long story short....figured I'd give the solids a try for a while and not touch these new beauties. Could always make mods in the future if the stock rotor didn't perform well. Street driving only...so what the hey. lezesig '79 X 1/9<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->GRM article<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 6 2001, 10:56 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 120px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Paul,

the current GRM has a special on brakes.

They say that

* modern pads don't gas out. Rotors were drilled in the 40s and 50s because of the gas, but it is no longer necessary.

* the holes increase rotor temps (less mass), cheese-grate your pads, and are stress risers.

* holes are used to lighten oversized brakes such as on motorcycles.

* slotted rotors help reduce glazing

* NASCAR and F1 don't drill their rotors
--------------

On a street car, drilled (and probably slotted) rotors can help in the rain. Some cars will take a second or two to get the water of the rotors before the car actually brakes. A local MGB driver (Seattle) reported dramatic improvements in this resepect.

Ulix

<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->drilled rotors in the rain<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 18 2001, 9:06 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 135px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Yes, it does help, brakes bite quicker when soaking wet if drilled.Maybe 2 seconds faster,(seems like a long time when you need em now!)I drilled mine in spiral patern and forged the edges of each holew a couple ball bearings .No cracks so far at one year.Slight,(6oz) reduction in weight.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Tony[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Hey Ulix... I love your signature...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 2 2001, 8:15 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 60px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Can I git one in black?

Love your site also... Yellar appears to be a great color for this car without all the barbs!

Good work!



Tony<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Ulix[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Thank you! <NT><!-- google_ad_section_end -->

[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]January 3 2001, 8:08 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 75px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->c<!-- google_ad_section_end -->

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