Bunch of newbie questions

Just throwing this out there . . . Toyota Gen 4 3SGTE is 390lbs and produces 260hp and 240 ft/lbs. They can quite easily make up to 330hp-350hp with only minor mods.

The Gen 4 is a popular swap to replace the Gen 2's in MR2's. Plus you could use the e153 transmission which already supports a mid engined transverse configuration, factory LSD, and is quite robust. . . .
 
Perhaps something to keep in mind with regard to such a engine swap (like the 3-cyl Fords).

By the time you purchase the engine and trans, have custom axles made, develop all of the mounts, add management systems, adapt the cooling/shifting/electrical/fuel/suspension/etc systems, upgrade the brakes/steering/suspension/chassis to safely handle it, and get everything to fit and work in the X, you will easily be somewhere well into the $20,000, $30,000, maybe even $40K range. That's into a $2000 car.

I get the fun factor, and I'm all for modifications (as I've been very outspoken about), as well as understand the "passion" for such things. But I've also learned to be realistic about these ideas; must be related to age and experiences I guess. I've been there and done that (as they say) many times over. Even if it's not about ever trying to recoup your cost or the amount of labor involved (which you never could come close to), it just does not make sound sense. The money would be much better spent toward a more worthy vehicle to start with. For that matter, you could easily buy a car with the same level of performance/fun from the factory, and customize its appearances to suit your taste for less cost and work - and be driving it tomorrow rather than 3 or 4 years from now.

That being said, please don't get me wrong. I'm am not trying to discourage anyone from building anything. I love seeing the final product of such projects (if they ever make it to completion). I just want to inject a bit of reality and sound judgement. No offense to anyone please.
 
Just throwing this out there . . . Toyota Gen 4 3SGTE is 390lbs and produces 260hp and 240 ft/lbs. They can quite easily make up to 330hp-350hp with only minor mods.

The Gen 4 is a popular swap to replace the Gen 2's in MR2's. Plus you could use the e153 transmission which already supports a mid engined transverse configuration, factory LSD, and is quite robust. . . .
I got to say that sounded like the ideal engine, weight and output! Bravo to Toyota for producing an iron block engine e that weighted very similar to Honda’s all alloy jobs!!

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The Toyota 3S-GE (originally titled 3S-GELU in transversely-mounted applications with Japanese emission controls), is an in-line 4 cylinder engine in the S engine family, manufactured by Toyota and designed in conjunction with Yamaha. While the block is iron, the cylinder head is made of aluminium alloy. The pent-roof combustion chambers are complemented by a cross-flow intake and exhaust layout. The spark plug is located in the center of the combustion chamber. The firing order is 1-3-4-2, with cylinder number 1 adjacent to the timing belt. The 3S-GE was designed to be light, the first iteration 3S-GELU weighing in at a low 143 kg (315 lb).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

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Compare to Ford’s 3 banger it is exactly 100lbs heavier but a lot more powerful than the Fox and similar to Dragon ... with room for more hps being a 2 liter. BUT a lot easier to configure and install as it came from a mid engines car!!
 
I got to say that sounded like the ideal engine, weight and output! Bravo to Toyota for producing an iron block engine e that weighted very similar to Honda’s all alloy jobs!!

++++
The Toyota 3S-GE (originally titled 3S-GELU in transversely-mounted applications with Japanese emission controls), is an in-line 4 cylinder engine in the S engine family, manufactured by Toyota and designed in conjunction with Yamaha. While the block is iron, the cylinder head is made of aluminium alloy. The pent-roof combustion chambers are complemented by a cross-flow intake and exhaust layout. The spark plug is located in the center of the combustion chamber. The firing order is 1-3-4-2, with cylinder number 1 adjacent to the timing belt. The 3S-GE was designed to be light, the first iteration 3S-GELU weighing in at a low 143 kg (315 lb).

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Toyota_S_engine

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Compare to Ford’s 3 banger it is exactly 100lbs heavier but a lot more powerful than the Fox and similar to Dragon ... with room for more hps being a 2 liter. BUT a lot easier to configure and install as it came from a mid engines car!!

Ummm....errrr......well......NO......

Read again LOL.....that 390 lbs is the engine alone. Almost the same as a K20 engine AND tranny. Add another 130 or so lbs for the Toyota tranny and you are well over 500 lbs......probably close to 200 lbs heavier than the Ford Ecoboost drivetrain.....

And....that 3SGTE is a HUGE engine. Good luck shoehorning that into the X1/9's engine bay........
 
No guys - no elephant here.......There IS plenty of aftermarket support for the 1.0 Ecoboost engine. It is used extensively in rallying (Fiesta R2 ) and racing over on the other side of the pond. There are plenty of aftermarket stand alone ECUs available off the shelf. For example:
https://www.performancemazda.co.uk/ford-fiesta-1-0-ecoboost-manegement-kit.html

Note they offer stand alone solutions for "kit cars" and such. Lots more out there - just google it.

Lots of potential for this engine. And lots to like as a swap into an X. Being a 3 banger it is really short - a major advantage to fit into the X's tiny engine bay. And despite it's iron block it is pretty light. Yeah - it looks pretty tall, but so is the stock X engine. Would it fit fairly easily ? I dunno. Someone should try it. But.....there is a better solution.........


Great find, that opens up the 1.6 and 2.0 options as well!
 
Ummm....errrr......well......NO......

Read again LOL.....that 390 lbs is the engine alone. Almost the same as a K20 engine AND tranny. Add another 130 or so lbs for the Toyota tranny and you are well over 500 lbs......probably close to 200 lbs heavier than the Ford Ecoboost drivetrain.....

And....that 3SGTE is a HUGE engine. Good luck shoehorning that into the X1/9's engine bay........

Ha, I was wondering how Toyota managed to made an iron block as light as Honda's alloy job!
 
Perhaps something to keep in mind with regard to such a engine swap (like the 3-cyl Fords).

By the time you purchase the engine and trans, have custom axles made, develop all of the mounts, add management systems, adapt the cooling/shifting/electrical/fuel/suspension/etc systems, upgrade the brakes/steering/suspension/chassis to safely handle it, and get everything to fit and work in the X, you will easily be somewhere well into the $20,000, $30,000, maybe even $40K range. That's into a $2000 car.

I get the fun factor, and I'm all for modifications (as I've been very outspoken about), as well as understand the "passion" for such things. But I've also learned to be realistic about these ideas; must be related to age and experiences I guess. I've been there and done that (as they say) many times over. Even if it's not about ever trying to recoup your cost or the amount of labor involved (which you never could come close to), it just does not make sound sense. The money would be much better spent toward a more worthy vehicle to start with. For that matter, you could easily buy a car with the same level of performance/fun from the factory, and customize its appearances to suit your taste for less cost and work - and be driving it tomorrow rather than 3 or 4 years from now.

That being said, please don't get me wrong. I'm am not trying to discourage anyone from building anything. I love seeing the final product of such projects (if they ever make it to completion). I just want to inject a bit of reality and sound judgement. No offense to anyone please.

Voice of reason, right here.
 
Toyota 2ZZ

About as light and nearly the same power as the Honda K20. More prevalent and cheaper.
 
I'm not up on Japanese engine knowledge - the cars aren't my thing so I've never owned or worked on any.
How do the "B" series Honda engines compare to the "K" series? I believe they are also all alloy (light weight), have a ton of aftermarket support, and seem to be much less expensive and way more available. I'm sure they aren't as powerful, but for a X swap that really isn't a big deal; if it can put out somewhere near 200 hp, you really can't use much more than that with the chassis/car design. Do they utilize the same installation kit as the "K"? Seems you could do the swap for about half the cost?
 
I'm not up on Japanese engine knowledge - the cars aren't my thing so I've never owned or worked on any.
How do the "B" series Honda engines compare to the "K" series? I believe they are also all alloy (light weight), have a ton of aftermarket support, and seem to be much less expensive and way more available. I'm sure they aren't as powerful, but for a X swap that really isn't a big deal; if it can put out somewhere near 200 hp, you really can't use much more than that with the chassis/car design. Do they utilize the same installation kit as the "K"? Seems you could do the swap for about half the cost?
I have the b in my x. Yes it can be done for alot cheaper than the K. That being said. If 9 years ago the k swap is where it is now, tried and true. I would have done the k. The b can, and has been done. And dollar for dollar I can turbo the b to upper 300 hp and still be streetable and cheaper than the k swap. But again, if I had to do it again I would go k. The b is reversed so the engine is on the drivers side. The exhaust is about 4 inches from the firewall. I do like the intake in the back though.

Odie
 
The B has other packaging issues around the existing intake as compared to the K. As it is a reverse rotation motor it places the intake on the trunk side with the exhaust going down the front of the motor by the fuel tank

The intake on the B motors is quite intrusive into the trunk.

There isn’t a kit per se as the B motors are suspended differently than the K series.

There is an excellent write up of the B install I believe I have a copy of the file, I will need to dredge around. The member’s name is on the tip of my tongue but I can’t quite pull it up. Begins with a B?
 
But I've also learned to be realistic about these ideas;
I'm with DJ on this. The X1/9 has power assisted nothing, especially the brakes, steering not so much an issue as being mid-engined steering remains light and direct (unless you go adding wider tyres to handle the increased power). Sure Porsche Boxsters are a bit wider, but that is because the arse end needs to house 255/40's to handle the power and keep you out of trees. Which is why I still strongly recommend going down the Porsche Boxster path, because with the money you're looking at, $15K would buy you a good one, which is already purpose built to handle the power and auto Journo's the world wide have called it one of the best handling sports cars ever built.
Getting your X Project to handle well, brake well, and just stay on the road is going to be a mission, even with it's pokey little 1500 I spun out in the dry pushing it hard when the rear let go, and you're looking at making the rear lighter, which will require more rubber to keep it on the road.
Unless you want to drag people off at the lights, you don't need more power as the X1/9 is very nimble and once up to speed can be driven hard through twisty roads, just keep the revs up. It just won't excite in a straight line, but is still good for a 100mph with a top end of 115, where as a Boxster will also excite through the bends, it will get to 100mph in a blink and is good for 150mph.
I love my little X1/9 for what it is, and it's fun to drive at speed and gives you the impression you're going a lot faster that you are, it is what it is, a diminutive fun sports car, designed and built in the 70's.
 
I'm with DJ on this. The X1/9 has power assisted nothing, especially the brakes, steering not so much an issue as being mid-engined steering remains light and direct (unless you go adding wider tyres to handle the increased power). Sure Porsche Boxsters are a bit wider, but that is because the arse end needs to house 255/40's to handle the power and keep you out of trees. Which is why I still strongly recommend going down the Porsche Boxster path, because with the money you're looking at, $15K would buy you a good one, which is already purpose built to handle the power and auto Journo's the world wide have called it one of the best handling sports cars ever built.
Getting your X Project to handle well, brake well, and just stay on the road is going to be a mission, even with it's pokey little 1500 I spun out in the dry pushing it hard when the rear let go, and you're looking at making the rear lighter, which will require more rubber to keep it on the road.
Unless you want to drag people off at the lights, you don't need more power as the X1/9 is very nimble and once up to speed can be driven hard through twisty roads, just keep the revs up. It just won't excite in a straight line, but is still good for a 100mph with a top end of 115, where as a Boxster will also excite through the bends, it will get to 100mph in a blink and is good for 150mph.
I love my little X1/9 for what it is, and it's fun to drive at speed and gives you the impression you're going a lot faster that you are, it is what it is, a diminutive fun sports car, designed and built in the 70's.

Don't forget to set aside a few thousand bucks for dealing with the Intermediate Shaft Bearing: https://www.pelicanparts.com/techar...ring/14-ENGINE-Intermediate_Shaft_Bearing.htm

Or maybe a LOT more if the bearing fails and trashes the engine.

I hear people go on and on about "German engineering" and "German build quality" and it makes me laugh.
 
Or maybe a LOT more if the bearing fails and trashes the engine.
But Boxsters have chain belts, unlike Fiats and post 80's Alfa's, which have rubber ones which will happily 'ping' ahead of time and stick valves through piston heads. All cars have faults, and the X1/9 has many, flakey electrics, a disposition for blowing head gaskets (the old iron block, alloy head conundrum), a complicated cooling system that's prone to rust and over heating, a gear box that self destructs at around 75,000 miles (reverse gets up and leaves and never comes back), starter motor issues usually a dicky solenoid. But I still have one, and reliability was not something I based my decision on, it's an X1/9.
 
I hear people go on and on about "German engineering" and "German build quality" and it makes me laugh.
No offense Dan, but to me it sounds like you have not experienced much German engineering.
But I'm certainly not looking to take sides or start any wars. Just expressing my personal opinion from a lot of years experience with both German and Italian vehicles; the Italians have it with regard to style, the Germans have it with regard to engineering and build quality.
I must qualify things a bit though; my experience in both camps is primarily with older vehicles. And indeed it looks like the newer German products are suffering from what they once were. However I do not see any improvement from Italian makers over the years, so I'd be inclined to say they are still behind.
As I've said before, I still love them all and enjoy what each has to offer.
 
This recent preoccupation with chain driven cam systems is quite humorous. I see it mainly on the Car Lounge and the Vortex in general.

A belt is less likely during its service life to jump time and stick valves through piston heads, particularly on an engine that is not an interference engine to start with. Even if it did manage to stove one through a piston on a Fiat engine, at most if you redid everything you would be at 4K to make a completely new engine.

Nearly every chain driven cam system on modern cars has had significant issues with either the chain, the tensioners or the related systems. Particularly on high performance engines. All of them fail to complete their service life without some part of the system failing and needing further maintenance procedures. This idea that chain driven unit will save you from significant maintenance over time is well and truly a misnomer regardless of whether its a Toyota (the paragon of appliance) or a Porsche (the antipode of Toyota).

I personally will take a 25 dollar belt, 20 dollar bearing and an hour and a half of my time to replace a timing belt every 15 years or 60k miles. Having to replace tensioners, guides and chains (often multiple) in an engine because one part of the system has failed is not my ideal of a cheap and easy time.

Porsches in particular have been a complete horror show regarding cam chains from the get go and hasn’t gotten better over time. Should per chance a Porsche jump time, you are looking well north of 10 large to get its engine back running and likely closer to 16 depending on the unit in question and how badly it knackered itself. Not to mention the self machining syndrome the Boxster engines have suffered which destroys the entire engine.

Criticizing a 30 year old cheap car for its faults, comparing it to and expecting it to equal a much newer premium brand is a bit off frankly. Some of the things you are saying literally make no sense. The X does handle well, it does brake well and even though it doesn’t have much grunt it certainly sings the right song with half the displacement of a Boxster.

A Boxster or Cayman is an amazing and wonderful car if you can afford one along with its care and feeding. It is an excellent suggestion for someone who wishes to write checks, not much fun for someone who wants to make their own.
 
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