Cheap Turbo discussion

The problem.

The problem with this is trying to find one small enough for our needs. The amount of air pushed out by our 1.3 or 1.5 engines is not very much, and if you buy a turbo for a 1.8 or 2.0 engine, it will not work.

I made this mistake once and after it was all installed, I found I could generate about 3psi of boost at 4,500rpm... hahaha... I think some people would call that extreme turbo lag...

When I finally got the turbo I liked, it was actually for a European Mercedes with a 1.1 gas engine. I would look for something along these lines instead.
 
Damon G's turbo

Still available as far as I know.
No takers on his X's as of yet.
 
jjay911 said:
I would be building a turbo twin cam 1800 or larger
Click to expand...

Turbos are out there for the smaller engines. The Abarth runs a relatively small turbo on the 500.

IF you go with a dual cam 1.8 + your options grow. I have installed/watched/help 3 turbos on Miata engines. The size ranged by quite a bit and by application (steet vs race vs track).

I would be interested to see how it goes. You WILL need to switch to a programmable system as you probably know.
 
PBS turbo

In the 80's Birckland was experimenting with a turbo setup for the x19 similar to the 124 turbo. Two companies were building prototypes for Brickland who was importing the x19 at that time. One company was in San Francisco, can't remember their name, and the other one was PBS in Orange county. I have the PBS system in my shed including the turbo which I bought from them when the program was dropped. A friend of mine Mike Murray was testing the cars for them and I actually drove one. It was quite quick but they never got them smog certified. The PBS system was all hand built and never went into production but it did work well. With todays aftermarket computers it would be even better. I have never hooked it up and run it so it has very few miles on it. In fact I will probably put it up for sale in the near future. I paid $300 for it and would like to get that out of it.

Charlie
 
I am betting that there is no such thing as a cheap turbo but I have been seeing some really cheap turbo parts on ebay lately and I have an idea about building some turbo Xs..
Click to expand...

Cheap? for sure you can but will it be any good?

IMHO it is easier to throw a turbo on a healthy engine than tear it down and fuss fiddle and blueprint with NA and carbs, bigger gains for less effort. That said I have a carb 74' 1300 as well and I understand the attraction of screaming around in a 4 speed at high revs - my two are night and day apart in character and performance.

I'm on my fourth SOHC turbo motor and learned a few things the hard way while I was pushing the boundaries & blowing stuff up over the last decade.

Leave that Garrett at your link behind, perhaps look at some proper Exh manifold & downpipe solutions first and when the flanges are decided then choose a suitibly sized compressor to suit, Garrett has a wider range of availability but that does not make them superior. The Silvia SR20DET S13 T25/T28 housing sizes that are always on evilBay are rich pickings if you know what AR to look for.

A bit like this http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/161685942749?ssPageName=STRK:MESINDXX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1436.l2649

IHI RHB4 & RHB5's can be found cheap if you land the earlier Exh manifold.

Everyone has heard size matters but it is too easy to go too big and end up with a laggy lump - err on the small side and have it come on lower in the rev range.


If you don't go for a programmable engine computer then you will be playing assorted compromises with fuel, ignition and boost and fall short of what the parts are capable of. Asside from the M Squirt programmable ECU's are not in what I guess your frame of cheap might be (even second hand). Uno ECU's come up now and again but put Punto GT ECU's in your reading list and plug in 'SEB chip" into Google. The Lads in the UK see 200 HP without too much difficulty. The stock 1500 management is not sophisticated enough to control the EFI at the resolution needed for ~200Hp.

IMHO

1. Bite the bullet and pay the freight on the Mk II Uno Turbo / Punto GT Fiat cast iron exhaust manifold if you can find one. The UnoT Mk I is the IHI flange a lot of folks dismiss it as the poor choice but in the scrap yard you may find some Mazda and Ford Probe Turbos that can be made into a decent Hybrid to give good boost for the 1500. I have both Fiat castings & it only makes a difference when you get really serious. If you do make your own tubular Exh manifold please support the Turbo lump from underneath like Fiat did or you will crack your Exh manifold welds. I copied the Euro sourced one that looks like the one Maxmod now has and I threw it in the skip after constant cracking.

3. Compression ratio ^ ~ 8:1 is going to play havoc with HG's if you don't have a programmable Engine management computer. Athena makes a good MLS with separate fire rings but not cheap, would need to check the bore size to see if it suits the block you have in mind.

2. The down pipe needs to be well thought out as getting rid of the heat and ensuring good gas flow is where you can make some NooB mistakes. Fabricate a good set of decent length smooth bends to get to the muffler, the cheap downpipes that are on evilBay for Nissan Skyline R32 R33 Turbo exhaust dump pipes make a good start. The diverted waste gate pipes ( think screamer pipes ) use twin entry turbo dump pipe design that helps keep the compressor wheel spinning when used in conjunction with a good BOV. I like to believe from what I have read and experienced that keeping the BOV as close to the plenum and throttle is a good combination. I started with ~ 2-1/3inch and settled on 2 1/2 inch /63.5mm down pipework after a few revisions.

4. Injectors - the stock Fiat EFI ones are not ideal. 440cc mark is good for 200hp. The Milano / Nissan Skyline R31 9/85-12/90 RB30E would be an improvement

5. Rising Rate Fuel Regulator can get you by, what EFI pump did you have in mind

6. Uno Turbo - Punto GT Exhaust / Inlet Manifold Gasket a pair of, has the O'ring seal to contain the increased manifold pressure. With higher levels of boost I have had a few standard SOHC ones leak.

7. Oil cooling - a yes with a remote cooler, choose a water / oil turbo cartridge to keep the temps in check. You won't have the oil squirters of an Uno / Punto but you will get by as long as you keep an eye on the temps. Temps can spike really quick and the stock oil temp sensor is too slow, I used a VDO head temp sensor kit I have off the Kombi till I worked through the intercooler / air-fuel ratios to understand where a radiator/intercooler fan over ride should cut in.

8. IC - a Madza RX7 air to air fits above the Gearbox and has the pipework in apropriate positions but you may have to move the coolant overflow tank. There are other better options, there is a VW 1.8T Jetta side mount unit in the mass aftermarket that can be made to suit but picking up a RX7 IC at a scrappers would be cheaper. If you place it there the rain tray has to go so some wire mesh to keep uninvited fingers out is preferable.



Boost up to 20 PSI * ~ 7K RPM reliably I ran on 176 A4XXX, 146 A2xxx & A8xxx blocks with 98 octane. After I gave up on finding decent E85 availability I settled on just under 19 PSI and tickle 7,500 often. Not much point after that as the compressor is out of puff.

I was going to put all my Turbo notes together one day and I still have to sort the pile of MultiAir CanBus scribblings but if you have any questions fire away. I can point you at some resources so you don't have to take this retarded Downunder dwellers word for it.


EDIT

I see now your intended motor is not a SOHC after I posted so ignore most of what I wrote. Your going to have more expense going this route but the options open up for serious power. I imagine the Fiat 5 speed won't be on duty as it will not survive that amount of power.

Best of luck
 
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Charlie. I would like to buy that set up from you. I have two twin cam Xs at the moment. One of them is already turbo charged and the other want wants to be turbo charged.... :grin:
 
JJ it has already been tentatively called for

It isn't for the twin cam engine it's for the X19 SOCH motor. I think the turbo would be too small for the Twin cam. I'll let you know if the deal falls thru.

Charlie
 
My limited turbo knowledge

I put my Uno manifold on the 1500 block and ran a T2/T3 hybrid turbo at 7psi with stock L-jet and it ran flawlessly. The only caveat was that I needed a PCV check valve at the cold air start injector tube as it would pop the dipstick out. Also, I needed a variable pressure regulator to vary the fuel flow.

also, Damon ran 7psi of boost on a TD04 which is used on 2.0l WRX's.
 
Pretty cool Rooster

In the old days we popped the dipstick out of a lot of Corvair turbos. Worn rings were usually the culprit, you do need good crankcase venting.

Charlie
 
I have also been wanting to go forced induction for a few years. If I only had the time I think I could justify it.

Rooster- I'd like to know more about your setup. I was always under the impression that any significant boost would require programmable injection. I think I'm going to go megasquirt or similar soon anyway, but I'm curious about the implications of running stock efi. How long have you been running this setup reliably, or how many miles? Is your engine stock apart from the turbo? I talked with some engineers who think my current cam is fine or even ideal to a turbo, but I think that a hot cam and turbo would be too much for Ljet. I bet even 7 psi is a blast on an X1/9.
 
Old Fiat Driver said:
PBS turbo

In the 80's Birckland was experimenting with a turbo setup for the x19 similar to the 124 turbo. Two companies were building prototypes for Brickland who was importing the x19 at that time. One company was in San Francisco, can't remember their name, and the other one was PBS in Orange county. I have the PBS system in my shed including the turbo which I bought from them when the program was dropped. A friend of mine Mike Murray was testing the cars for them and I actually drove one. It was quite quick but they never got them smog certified. The PBS system was all hand built and never went into production but it did work well. With todays aftermarket computers it would be even better. I have never hooked it up and run it so it has very few miles on it. In fact I will probably put it up for sale in the near future. I paid $300 for it and would like to get that out of it.

Charlie
Click to expand...
I'm about 5 years late to this discussion but have you sold it yet? I'm interested.
 
Dine said:
I'm about 5 years late to this discussion but have you sold it yet? I'm interested.
Click to expand...
I recall that Charlie had these items listed in the "for sale" portion of the forum. See if you can find that thread by searching under his user name. It will likely answer your question (I don't recall the outcome). I don't think Charlie is on the forum much these days so you may not get a reply here.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
I recall that Charlie had these items listed in the "for sale" portion of the forum. See if you can find that thread by searching under his user name. It will likely answer your question (I don't recall the outcome). I don't think Charlie is on the forum much these days so you may not get a reply here.
Click to expand...
thanks bruv I'll take a look!
 
Crazy timing. Hi Dine. Ya Dr. Jeff is right I sold it several years ago. I decided to put my 2 liter turbo in my yellow X19 and have actually started the project but life keeps getting in the way and I'm getting older ( slower ). I am not sure if I'll even have the time to finish it so it just sits there. Who knows what the future holds.
Good luck
Charlie
 
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