Clutch or clutch slave help me please! 87 x1/9

DBOZ

Daily Driver
Ok, my pipedream I bought years ago, is almost complete. Problem is when I came back to Florida, I took her for a spin and the whole rear locked up on me around the block. Did the basic checking of brakes etc... Finally after talking to friends and auto mechs, they figured it would be the clutch is just blown out. I could not even roll the car the axels would just roll maybe an inch. If I could jack the rear up then they would spin freely. Now I have dropped the tranny, looks like the throwout bearing is shot, and the clutch slave is pretty much gone also. I had to swap my 83 motor in the 87 because it was siezed when I purchased the "parts" 87 car. Headaches later, Im convinced it has to be the slave and the throwout bearing. I need advice so bad!
P.S. My fifth gear never worked, and since I have the tranny right in front of me, should I open the top up and see if the fork and gears of 5th are just blown? Allready ordered tranny gaskets from bayless, and have 1 5th gear i bought off ebay a few years ago.
Thanks so much, my fiat is just bugging me untill I get her on the road again.
Darrell
 
Did the basic checking of brakes etc... Finally after talking to friends and auto mechs, they figured it would be the clutch is just blown out. I could not even roll the car the axels would just roll maybe an inch. If I could jack the rear up then they would spin freely.

Hi Darrell, there really isn't any way that the clutch can cause the car not to roll. If the transmission is in neutral, the car will roll no matter what is wrong with the clutch.

If the car won't roll in neutral and each wheel will spin indepentantly when both are off the ground, the transmission is locked up. Most likely, two or more gears are seized to the lay shaft.

This will be no simple transmission fix and just popping the 5th gear cover won't get to your problem. You either need to tear into it or replace it. Matt Brannon at MidWestX1/9 has my rebuilds in stock, ready to ship.
 
I know, but those are 1500 :sad: I but I want to know why it will spin freely untill I put it back on the ground then just its locked up pretty much. Rebuilding it doesnt seem so bad, just arg, I dont really want to. even now, i can put in in gears with the gear selector, and they spin on both sides. Just trying to isolate the problem before I go nuts. :wall:
 
Ummm...

I'm confused, how could it not turn with the wheels on the ground but turn with them in the air? Something's not quite clear in your description.:confused:

Is it that you can rotate one side and the other side rotates in the opposite direction? That would make more sense, but I'm still not sure.
 
Im trying to explain it on how it happened to me. I am just dumbfounded with the problem at hand. If its on the ground, i could only rock it a few inches seemed like the tranny blew. If I would jack it up about 2 feet the whole rear, then they would turn freely. Should I open up the tranny and figure out if I blew 2nd or 3rd gear? It was one of those gears I was shifting into when they whole rear locked up on me.
Darrell
 
When it is up off the ground and you turn one wheel the other wheel should spin in the opposite direction of the one you are turning. It will do this with the tranny locked up because that is the differential doing its job.

David.
 
Ok, just drained it. No pieces of metal came out, filled my empty 1gal jug 1/2 way or more. just smells like awful old tranny oil from 83 or something.
 
If you only had 1/2 gallon of gear oil in it (2 quarts), it was way low. That probably accounts for it seizing.

As already noted above, if you jack both wheels off the ground and turn one, the other will turn the opposite direction. Only the differential's internals are turning, not the transmission.

I still think it seized.
 
Ok, so do I begin to tear apart the tranny now? How will I visually know if its seized up? The manuals dont really cover this topic very well.
Darrell
 
Ok, so do I begin to tear apart the tranny now? How will I visually know if its seized up? The manuals dont really cover this topic very well.

HA! No, the manuals don't cover transmission service adequately. Fortunately, there is 5 speed 101 which is resident on the SeattleX1/9 site. Find it here:

http://www.seattlex19.org/data/5s101/

I never did get around to providing photographs to go with the text. However, there are some photos on the MidwestX1/9 site. They can be found here:

http://www.midwest-x19.com/steveh-trans-rebuild.htm

How to tell if its locked up? You won't be able to get the individual gears off the layshaft. You may be able to drive them off, or press them off (using a hydraulic press), but its likely they are now welded on forever. :wall:
 
Ok, I got bold, took the top cap off, and OMG, 5th gear looks like a WW2 disaster in there. Pics attached. Should I keep going, or do you think that could be the problem, since everything is just wedged in there, as in something blew up bad, rings and junk and stuff :wall:
1.jpg

2.jpg

3.jpg

4.jpg

5.jpg
 
Yep, that's a classic 5th gear synchronizer explosion. The synchro and its cresent springs were ingested into the gear and chewed everything up. In one pic, I can see where a large peice apparantely was ingested and stuck. That's likely the cause of the trans being locked up.

Pull the two 30mm end nuts off the shafts and then the two gears. Then see if you can turn the input shaft. If so, that is why it was locked up.

At the very least, you will need a complete 5th gear setup. The rest of the internals are still unknown.
 
two hours later, and i cant for the life of me get those damn nuts off. I have snapped 3 screwdrivers trying to decrimp them, as that guide you posted for me states. I think I have them pretty well movable, but all my impact and car tools are 1500miles back home. I have the 30mm with 1inch drive, but I cant get them loose. Just keep trying or ???? I bet they will move freely once I declog it, since no metal was found draining the tranny fluid.
 
Suggest taking trans to a local service station/auto repair shop and give the mechanic a Sawbuck ($10) to hit the two shaft nuts with the air gun.

Much less swearing that way!:shh:
 
Got ya, will do that in the morning. Let you know the battle damage after that.
P.S. I have a spare tranny sitting in Appleton, WI anyone know a cheap way to ship it to Ft.Myers Fl?
 
If the tranny is locked then you should be able to loosen the two nuts without it turning.

You can always do the Lazlo technique and stick a rag into the gears if they are turning.
 
Of course, it's your good fortune to be located only 309 miles from the Sultan of Synchros himself, Steve Hoelscher, who as I recall is located in St. Augustine.

The FedEx website says you could ship it to him for about $61.00.
 
Update, Got the 2 bolts off, 10 bucks for the shop guys, since all my shop equip. is in WI. Anyways, I cant dejamb it for the life of me. I got it down to maybe an inch of metal left wedged in the gears. You seen in in the pics. Any tips? Once I can get it out then i can pull whats left of the gears, and start dismantling the rest. Otherwise, me and my drill bits will just have to take it to town till i can just pry that damn thing off.
 
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