On a 60 deg day I took her around the neighborhood yesterday. Noticed the clutch wasn't returning to position. Today there wa an oil leak dripping down on the clutch. Having done a search, I hope it's not a master cylinder replacement. The clutch pedal is just not springing back up. Now I'm not a mechanic but I have done some minor stuff on Hondas. Any specific instructions...?
Clutch pedal not returning oil dripping down
- Thread starter Wayne
- Start date
lookforjoe
True Classic
I'm with Rodger - I'd start with MWB or VicAuto or C.Obert Fiat Parts, before using any generic eBay store listing.
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
Often the result of never changing the brake fluid in both the clutch hydraulics and eventually the brake hydraulics will do much the same.
What is not often appreciated, brake fluid MUST be replaced on schedule 2-3 years max. Majority never wanna do this for ? reason, yet most obsess over engine oil.
If there is a drip on your pedal shoe, it is almost certain the master cylinder is dead and leaking. The entire hydraulic system both clutch and brakes will need fixing.. This means replacing ALL hydraulic cylinders and hoses related to both clutch and brake hydraulic system.
The odds are good all hydraulic parts, brakes and cutch are oem and never been touched. Any wonder why they have failed?
As for replacement master cylinders, not a fan of current aftermarket parts. IMO, at this point in time. if you 're planning to keep this exxe, have the oem master cylinders sleeved in stainless steel by Karps Brake service in CA. About $100, new seals and related. Based on taking apart a number of aftermarket replacement master cylinders (most recent was for the Lancia summer 2020, master cylinder was returned due to dismal quality), the innards are poor quality no where near as good as oem Fiat. This is due to the "no fun at all" task of R&R of these master cylinders. Once they are in place, they need to stay in place and work and stay working.
Clutch slave is much easier to replace and the aftermarket cylinders are ok.
Again, all hoses will need to be replaced when this done.
The clutch reservoir will need to be pressurized no more than 15 psi for air purge the system and get it working again.
Suggested brake fluid would be ATE's TYP200 dot 4+ brake fluid. There are other brake fluids on the market with a higher boil point, at higher cost. Do NOT use dot 5, silicon brake fluid.
Bernice
What is not often appreciated, brake fluid MUST be replaced on schedule 2-3 years max. Majority never wanna do this for ? reason, yet most obsess over engine oil.
If there is a drip on your pedal shoe, it is almost certain the master cylinder is dead and leaking. The entire hydraulic system both clutch and brakes will need fixing.. This means replacing ALL hydraulic cylinders and hoses related to both clutch and brake hydraulic system.
The odds are good all hydraulic parts, brakes and cutch are oem and never been touched. Any wonder why they have failed?
As for replacement master cylinders, not a fan of current aftermarket parts. IMO, at this point in time. if you 're planning to keep this exxe, have the oem master cylinders sleeved in stainless steel by Karps Brake service in CA. About $100, new seals and related. Based on taking apart a number of aftermarket replacement master cylinders (most recent was for the Lancia summer 2020, master cylinder was returned due to dismal quality), the innards are poor quality no where near as good as oem Fiat. This is due to the "no fun at all" task of R&R of these master cylinders. Once they are in place, they need to stay in place and work and stay working.
Clutch slave is much easier to replace and the aftermarket cylinders are ok.
Again, all hoses will need to be replaced when this done.
The clutch reservoir will need to be pressurized no more than 15 psi for air purge the system and get it working again.
Suggested brake fluid would be ATE's TYP200 dot 4+ brake fluid. There are other brake fluids on the market with a higher boil point, at higher cost. Do NOT use dot 5, silicon brake fluid.
Bernice
johnph
True Classic
Of course, you want to replace the 4 hoses that go to each caliper. It is a good idea when doing this job to remove the reservoirs and clean them and also replace the hoses that go between the reservoirs and the master cylinders. Make sure that you have the correct brake line wrench before attempting to undo the brake caliper hoses from the steel lines. It is a good idea to clean and wire brush those 4 joints and soak it with PB Blaster a few days before you attempt to loosen the steel line flare nuts. They tend to corrode together after 10/20/30/40 years.
lookforjoe
True Classic
Always ideal, however that can be done another time, or the scoop-creep will set in - unless there was a specific issue with the brakes as well.
lookforjoe
True Classic
1/4" Goodyear Sureline hose works for the reservoir hoses - you can get a spool at Tractor Supply if you have one nearby
Rupunzell
Bernice Loui
1) Clutch master & clutch slave cylinder of proven and tested good quality.
2) Brake master cylinder.
3) Aprox 1/4" ID EPDM (Do NOT use fuel line or similar line, it WILL fail) hose for fluid reservoir to master cylinders. Aprox 12ft.
proper hose clamps for these hosed. Suggest ABA (sweden) full band "fuel injection" clamps, stainless steel.
4) Brake hoses, front and rear. Either oem or Goodridge teflon-stainless steel braid covered, or Parker brake hose made to order at the local parker industrial distributor. These hoses must be DOT _ TUV approved.
4c) Clutch hose with copper crush washers. Given this is the hose that is seldom replaced, it should be replaced. Copper washers can be re-used
if they are headed up to red then cooled slowly to anneal the copper. If this is not done or coper washers replaced, they will not seal properly
resulting in a leak.
5) Replacement M10x1.25, 3/16" ID long still tube nuts if needed.
6) Replacement hardware if needed including the plastic bushing that works as a bearing between the clutch & brake pedal. Expect to replace
dead to dying hardware as needed.
7) Brake fluid, no less than one liter.
8) Penetrating oil. Soak ALL the M10 tube fittings about a day before doing this work. The M12 tube nut on the clutch master is a Fiat special.
Do what is needed to prevent damaging this tube nut as it is not easy to replace. If the fluid bleed fittings on the brake calipers do not have their
covers, they can be corroded frozen making loosening difficult to twisting them off. This is why soaking all these threaded fasteners with
penetrating oil is important.
9) Cleaning supplies.
10) High quality moly grease for the master cylinder push rods. These will need to be checked for wear.
11) Moly or Nickel based Anti seize, apply to the tube nut threads, it will make a difference next time these parts will be serviced.
12) One roll of pennies or similar coins. To fill in the gaps in the clutch spring to allow removal and install. It will be an absolute struggle if this
is not done or a special tool is needed to re-install the clutch spring.
Tools:
~High quality 10mm & 13mm flare nut wrench.
~Small Vee jaw vise grip for stuck flare nut removal if they are really stuck.
~Bubble flaring tool, tube cutter if needed.
~Some method for pressurizing (not more than 15 psi) the clutch fluid reservoir.
~Remove the driver seat, this will aid access.
~Usual assortment of hand and cordless tools as needed.
~Post if you get stuck or need something.
Sure there is more, think this is most from memory.
Bernice
lookforjoe
True Classic
Which is why I'd just deal with the master's & worry about the rest later - unless you are aware of issues with the brakes in general....
lookforjoe
True Classic
Datsun Guy
Daily Driver
Just as a side note, get a pack of extra large puppy training pads (pee Pads). I had a bag from recent puppy build project. Plastic on one side, absorbent paper on the other. They're cheap and can be taped together plastic side down to protect carpet and interior while working, also around the reservoirs when refilling. I did the clutch master only, a month later, the brake started dripping, of course. Pee pad in place until I can fix it.
Me.... I'd do the master because you know it has to be done, then carefully inspect the slave for evidence of leakage or imminent failure, leave it alone if it looks OK. The slave and its hose are easily accessible, if it turns out that you need to replace it in a few weeks or months that's no big deal so you don't gain much by doing it now.
The brake master is a different question. It will never be easier to replace the brake master than now while you're in there working on the clutch master. You will be sorry if you have to go back in underneath the dash a second time to replace the master. On the other hand, it's still a lot of extra hassle to replace the brake master if it's not necessary. Me.... I'm not going to replace a master that isn't showing signs of failure, but honesty compels me to admit that that attitude has made for a few extra trips under the dash over the years.
And this showed up just as I was finishing this post.... That is the argument for doing both cylinders when you're in there and have reason to think that they're both about the same age and near to failure.
