Conversion to EFI

WildWilly

True Classic
Hi all,

Having a lot of carb issues and considering switching to EFI. What options are out there besides the later model Fiat EFI? Holley? Edelbrock? Any thing from these guys make any sense? Thanks...
 
Good day sir.

A carb is a simple thing, changing to a non emissions version of the carb would likely solve your problems.

Although I love my injected cars, changing a car to such a system is not fast nor easy. The easiest would be to change to the existing injection system Fiat installed. Vicks sells an injection system which is based on Megasquirt (I believe), it is a bit pricey.

Personally I would dump the majority of emission equipment and go to a good carb setup. Perhaps move to a single DCNF or a single IDF.

Carl (the other one who has much more wisdom than I posess) will be along shortly to espouse the real benefits of a good carb setup. I would follow his advice, just short of the twin carbs, though they are tempting.
 
However if you decide to convert to fuel injection, there are a couple of choices.

As you mentioned the later X's factory FI system will swap onto your engine. Many have done it; it is a bit of work but certainly possible and probably the most cost effective route. Look for the numerous threads on Xweb that cover how it is done.

Another option is to retain your carb manifold and install a aftermarket EFI for two barrel intakes. Effectively it replaces the carb with a pair of injectors and throttle plates, making it a throttle body injection. Holly makes one and I believe there is at least one other. The downsides are cost (definitely more than getting a complete used Fiat system), issues with installation (they are generic and not designed specifically for this application), setup (it won't necessarily be the correct injectors and controls), and there is really no way of knowing how well it will work (I don't believe anyone has ever done it).

Yet another option is to build your own system from scratch. There are throttle bodies that replace Webers and could be used on a SOHC manifold for dual Webers. Or use the throttle bodies from modern street motorcycles. Or use a race style set of slide valve throttle bodies from one of the specialists that make them for track applications. Any of these will require that you also develop a ECU and related components to support the system. Likely the most expensive and most difficult route to go.

I'm willing to bet you can find something on the internet describing how to get cheap used parts from junkyards and cobble together something. I won't even discuss that any further.

So I think getting the FI system from a later model X is your best choice. You can either keep it completely stock/original or you can do some upgrades to it (e.g. aftermarket programmable ECU). By the way, I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the "programmable EFI system" sold by one of the vendors uses another ECU other than MegaSquirt. But I could be mistaken.

As Karl said, rather than switching to FI you can get a better carb. Personally I feel EFI is much better than any carb. But that is only my opinion. A carb swap is certainly much easier and less expensive to do.
 
Here we go. Without being biased, I am a Fiat carb advocate, if you cannot get a simple carb to work properly then the odds of installing and getting an FI system to work properly are not good. Having stripped many FI systems off Xs and spiders I can say they are not a simple bolt on compared to a carb. You need the right gas tank, pump and wiring and that does not include all the FI components themselves. There are several sensors to be installed and I note the FI head has cutouts in the intake ports for injector flow...no clue if a non-FI head will work without those cutouts. My 1500 ex injected motor runs great with a 34DATR Weber. Of course there are many folks here who just love to overcomplicate things...just look at the thread about oil pressure gauge sending units.

I will soon be installing dual 40 IDFs on my car but that's still not as complicated as the stock Fiat injection system.
Then again, if your comfort zone is playing with injection and you feel a two barrel Weber is the devil's spawn then going to injection would make sense.

Maybe I missed it, what are the carb issues you are having?
 
Thanks for the help. Here is the real issue, besides all the regular issues of having a carb like vapor lock, hard to start, etc. As a side note, we're planning on installing an electric fuel pump to help with some of these issues. I have a 36DCNVA (NOS - not designed for the X1/9 - its a true 2 barrel carb, both ports in use all the time) with a custom intake manifold. Everything was fine for the first year or so. The carb itself is not the actual problem at the moment. It's a stock Fiat manifold with the mounting base removed and turned the other way to allow the 36DCNVA to sit correctly. The intake has warped and we now have an air leak. We have tried many different gaskets to no avail. Even ordered the Uno Turbo gasket (from Croatia) with the crush rings around the intake ports. No luck. We've tried to grind the surface of the intake as well, but we can't seem to take off enough and my mechanic is worried that taking any more off will cause it to warp again in short order. I've now spent a crazy amount of money trying to fix it and I'm ready to give up, this is the 3rd attempt. Buying another custom manifold might not be possible, so I'm looking at getting a new manifold and a new carb. Not cheap. Was looking at carb to EFI conversions on many older Jeeps as they had weber carbs, so I can likely find an adapter plate for the Fiat intake, then bolt on a Holley Sniper 2GC, two barrel, only 4 wires to connect and supposedly, all my troubles go away. I would love to do dual webers, but we're talking serious $$ now. VAS has a setup for $1,600 US$, double the cost of the Holley. If I could get a good carb and intake (used) that we know is in working order, I would be open to that, but finding it is not easy. Maybe Carl will sell his 34DATR setup:) The engine was a complete rebuild, the only original parts are the base pan, connecting rods, block, cam cover. Everything else is new, and I mean everything, both inside and outside the engine. Its a 1300 block bored out to get rid of the scaring and then a Euro 1500 head and cam. It should be a nice reliable motor, but it really hasn't been much fun since the rebuild. I'm well north of 10K into the motor and tranny, just want to enjoy my car, but can't seem to get there. Any help advice is appreciated. I've reached out to Matt @ MWB to see if they have any carb setups available as there was nothing on their site when I checked. As always, many thanks for the help.
 
Hi Willy,

You can check out my old thread on my never completed 78 carb to FI conversion. The thread lays out a bunch of issues I encountered, and yes, it is pretty embarrassing that the car is still sitting there 80% complete after nearly 9 years. :( If you plow thru all the posts you will even find a post from yourself asking what is involved. :)

At this point, I am tempted to haul it to MWB and have them finish it. It is such a good X and I have done it no favors by letting it sit. Fortunately I have always been able to store it in a garage.
 
Thanks Jim. My plan is to take it to MWB after I get the engine running again to have them go through all the electrical, update to LEDs and install new carpet. I've been trying to get there for 2 years:)
 
However if you decide to convert to fuel injection, there are a couple of choices.

As you mentioned the later X's factory FI system will swap onto your engine. Many have done it; it is a bit of work but certainly possible and probably the most cost effective route. Look for the numerous threads on Xweb that cover how it is done.

Another option is to retain your carb manifold and install a aftermarket EFI for two barrel intakes. Effectively it replaces the carb with a pair of injectors and throttle plates, making it a throttle body injection. Holly makes one and I believe there is at least one other. The downsides are cost (definitely more than getting a complete used Fiat system), issues with installation (they are generic and not designed specifically for this application), setup (it won't necessarily be the correct injectors and controls), and there is really no way of knowing how well it will work (I don't believe anyone has ever done it).

Yet another option is to build your own system from scratch. There are throttle bodies that replace Webers and could be used on a SOHC manifold for dual Webers. Or use the throttle bodies from modern street motorcycles. Or use a race style set of slide valve throttle bodies from one of the specialists that make them for track applications. Any of these will require that you also develop a ECU and related components to support the system. Likely the most expensive and most difficult route to go.

I'm willing to bet you can find something on the internet describing how to get cheap used parts from junkyards and cobble together something. I won't even discuss that any further.

So I think getting the FI system from a later model X is your best choice. You can either keep it completely stock/original or you can do some upgrades to it (e.g. aftermarket programmable ECU). By the way, I seem to recall seeing somewhere that the "programmable EFI system" sold by one of the vendors uses another ECU other than MegaSquirt. But I could be mistaken.

As Karl said, rather than switching to FI you can get a better carb. Personally I feel EFI is much better than any carb. But that is only my opinion. A carb swap is certainly much easier and less expensive to do.


Thanks Jeff, good info. From what I can see, getting the Fiat setup and using MS2 will cost close to $2,000 in parts, that's more than double the cost of the Holley. MWB has the Fiat FI hardware for $800, then I need to get the MS2 and all the other bits. Part of me wants to try the Holley and maybe be the first to do it. I've watched several videos where they replace the weber on a Jeep and it works great, should be more or less the same for the X.
 
Have you heard of Remflex? Graphite gasket, crushes when installed, accepts minor deformation (up to 1/8").
all one piece, they have an X1/9 fitment
http://catalog.remflex.com/FIAT_MANIFOLD_HEADER_GASKET_p/37-001.htm
I have one, works like a champ!

Yes, I have heard of that one. When I was looking last year, everyone said the Uno Turbo gasket with the crush rings would be better, so I ordered that one. I guess this is worth a try. Thanks again for the link.
 
Its sad to hear your carb set up is not working out. I have almost the exact same build as you, so we will see how it goes. It sounds like your biggest issue is the manifold itself. It is aluminum so is fixable. Perhaps with any lessons learned you could remove the top plate and modify/remake it as needed, reweld? This would be much cheaper than any EFI conversion.

On another note, I recently made a full order for LEDs inside and out. I can let you know how it goes once they arrive and I have a chance to install them.
 
Its sad to hear your carb set up is not working out. I have almost the exact same build as you, so we will see how it goes. It sounds like your biggest issue is the manifold itself. It is aluminum so is fixable. Perhaps with any lessons learned you could remove the top plate and modify/remake it as needed, reweld? This would be much cheaper than any EFI conversion.

On another note, I recently made a full order for LEDs inside and out. I can let you know how it goes once they arrive and I have a chance to install them.

Andrew,

Thanks for the update. Would love to hear how the LEDs workout for you. Looking to do the same to mine. Yes, you have the same setup from FiatFactory I believe. The issue with the intake is not just grinding it flat again, but getting too thin, then also the exhaust manifold has to be refinished as well. To help with some of the issues with any carb, I'm thinking an electric fuel pump, at least the bowls will be full every time I turn the key.
 
Andrew,

Thanks for the update. Would love to hear how the LEDs workout for you. Looking to do the same to mine. Yes, you have the same setup from FiatFactory I believe. The issue with the intake is not just grinding it flat again, but getting too thin, then also the exhaust manifold has to be refinished as well. To help with some of the issues with any carb, I'm thinking an electric fuel pump, at least the bowls will be full every time I turn the key.


Do you have a return line from the carb to the tank for over pressurizing the carb? I have a little T in my line. I wish I could modify the top of the carb to make a splitter embedded into the inlet like the stock carb does. Perhaps remove it and see if that helps.

Or you could use a ignition cutoff switch to disable starting and allow the fuel to prime before starting. I need to put one in for an insurance break as well: active disable device.
 
Hi Willy, couple of thoughts after reading your comments.

First, if you decided to convert to a Fiat X1/9 FI, you do not need to go MS2. You can use the original stock ECU and all other components. That is actually more likely to be trouble free and much easier (and less expensive) to do. In fact, if you buy a complete used X1/9 FI setup from someone then it should contain everything you need for a lot less money than the Holley system. It will require a couple of minor alterations as others have mentioned. But so will the Holley EFI, and even your carb setup from the sound of things (more on that in a moment). As I understand it, the Holley EFI is designed for American two barrel conversions and will not be a direct replacement on your Fiat. I'm not certain what base mounting bolt pattern you now have on your modified intake manifold, but most of the American vehicles with "Weber" type carbs use the DGV derivatives, which are not the same bolt pattern as most Webers that we deal with. Therefore it may not be so easy to get an adapter plate to fit the EFI to a Fiat manifold.

Regarding your issue with the carb intake manifold not sealing to the head. I'm of the impression that the major amount of cutting, welding, and machining that is involved in converting the stock manifold to rotate the carb 90 degrees will ruin the manifold. Too much heat, etc, to keep it anywhere near straight...even with machining. Again, that is just my opinion. But consider that even the stock (unmodified) manifold can be difficult to get flat. I've dealt with this on both carb and FI Fiat manifolds. They are old, been through many heat cycles, the engines are prone to overheating, they have been torqued (and over torqued) MANY times, etc, etc. If it is machined enough to make it flat and true (two different things) then you are left with thin mounting pads. And with the (undesirable in my opinion) shared mounting between the intake and exhaust manifolds, you will still have leaks due to uneven torque on the studs (unequal manifold thicknesses). Yes the exhaust manifold can also be machined to make its pads thinner. But keep in mind the exhaust manifold is typically even worse in terms of distortion and therefore more difficult to get true and flat. So you will be going in circles trying to make both fit correctly. As if all that wasn't bad enough, I've also discovered the head mounting surface is often not flat or true. So still more machine work is needed once the manifolds are finally made right. "Magic" gaskets will help in minor cases, but with your modified intake manifold I am skeptical.

And do not forget. If you install a Holley EFI on your manifold it will still have the same leaking problems you are now facing. But as I said, the stock Fiat FI manifolds are not any better in terms of sealing. So converting to Fiat FI may not be much better. Although any other intake manifold may be better than the modified one you now have. One option might be to buy a new Weber style (e.g. Aqualti, etc clone) intake manifold from one of the Croatia suppliers, and keep the carb you have.

Any minute you will see replies pop up saying they have never had the manifolds leak, the stock Fiat components never fail, this is completely unfounded and simply not true, old Fiat engineering is the best in the history of the automobile, I will go to hell for saying such things, etc. And I'm sure they are all correct. But I am offering my personal experiences. I think before you decide to spend any money on any conversion, it might be best to find out exactly why your intake manifold is not sealing. Is the head mounting surface flat and true (as measured with proper machinist equipment)? Is the intake manifold distorted, excessively warped, or otherwise unrepairable and therefore not usable? How do the intake and exhaust manifold mounting pads compare in thickness AND surface angles (are the two halves of each nut landing true, parallel, and flat to each other)? Are the mounting studs, thick washers, and nuts correct and properly tightened?

Please do not take any of my comments as implications that you have not done any of this or that you do not understand these things. I am simply trying to go over all of the things that I think might be considerations in the hope of helping you find a resolution to the problem. That is the end goal...to get your engine fixed. ;)
 
Do you have a return line from the carb to the tank for over pressurizing the carb? I have a little T in my line. I wish I could modify the top of the carb to make a splitter embedded into the inlet like the stock carb does. Perhaps remove it and see if that helps.

Or you could use a ignition cutoff switch to disable starting and allow the fuel to prime before starting. I need to put one in for an insurance break as well: active disable device.


Andrew,

I think we have a return from the fuel filter back to the tank, so the electric pump could push it back to the tank if its too much. The idea with the electric fuel pump, is turn the key, wait 3 seconds, then start. Might make a big difference. Once we get the intake leak sorted, we will look at that.
 
Hi Willy, couple of thoughts after reading your comments.

First, if you decided to convert to a Fiat X1/9 FI, you do not need to go MS2. You can use the original stock ECU and all other components. That is actually more likely to be trouble free and much easier (and less expensive) to do. In fact, if you buy a complete used X1/9 FI setup from someone then it should contain everything you need for a lot less money than the Holley system. It will require a couple of minor alterations as others have mentioned. But so will the Holley EFI, and even your carb setup from the sound of things (more on that in a moment). As I understand it, the Holley EFI is designed for American two barrel conversions and will not be a direct replacement on your Fiat. I'm not certain what base mounting bolt pattern you now have on your modified intake manifold, but most of the American vehicles with "Weber" type carbs use the DGV derivatives, which are not the same bolt pattern as most Webers that we deal with. Therefore it may not be so easy to get an adapter plate to fit the EFI to a Fiat manifold.

Regarding your issue with the carb intake manifold not sealing to the head. I'm of the impression that the major amount of cutting, welding, and machining that is involved in converting the stock manifold to rotate the carb 90 degrees will ruin the manifold. Too much heat, etc, to keep it anywhere near straight...even with machining. Again, that is just my opinion. But consider that even the stock (unmodified) manifold can be difficult to get flat. I've dealt with this on both carb and FI Fiat manifolds. They are old, been through many heat cycles, the engines are prone to overheating, they have been torqued (and over torqued) MANY times, etc, etc. If it is machined enough to make it flat and true (two different things) then you are left with thin mounting pads. And with the (undesirable in my opinion) shared mounting between the intake and exhaust manifolds, you will still have leaks due to uneven torque on the studs (unequal manifold thicknesses). Yes the exhaust manifold can also be machined to make its pads thinner. But keep in mind the exhaust manifold is typically even worse in terms of distortion and therefore more difficult to get true and flat. So you will be going in circles trying to make both fit correctly. As if all that wasn't bad enough, I've also discovered the head mounting surface is often not flat or true. So still more machine work is needed once the manifolds are finally made right. "Magic" gaskets will help in minor cases, but with your modified intake manifold I am skeptical.

And do not forget. If you install a Holley EFI on your manifold it will still have the same leaking problems you are now facing. But as I said, the stock Fiat FI manifolds are not any better in terms of sealing. So converting to Fiat FI may not be much better. Although any other intake manifold may be better than the modified one you now have. One option might be to buy a new Weber style (e.g. Aqualti, etc clone) intake manifold from one of the Croatia suppliers, and keep the carb you have.

Any minute you will see replies pop up saying they have never had the manifolds leak, the stock Fiat components never fail, this is completely unfounded and simply not true, old Fiat engineering is the best in the history of the automobile, I will go to hell for saying such things, etc. And I'm sure they are all correct. But I am offering my personal experiences. I think before you decide to spend any money on any conversion, it might be best to find out exactly why your intake manifold is not sealing. Is the head mounting surface flat and true (as measured with proper machinist equipment)? Is the intake manifold distorted, excessively warped, or otherwise unrepairable and therefore not usable? How do the intake and exhaust manifold mounting pads compare in thickness AND surface angles (are the two halves of each nut landing true, parallel, and flat to each other)? Are the mounting studs, thick washers, and nuts correct and properly tightened?

Please do not take any of my comments as implications that you have not done any of this or that you do not understand these things. I am simply trying to go over all of the things that I think might be considerations in the hope of helping you find a resolution to the problem. That is the end goal...to get your engine fixed. ;)


Jeff,

Thanks so much, no offense taken in any of your comments. The head (1500 Euro) is new, or was when we started and is true as far as we can tell, the exhaust manifold is also new, ceramic coated and resurfaced (to remove the ceramic coating) to make sure it is flat and true. The modified intake was flat and true at the beginning, everything ran fine for 2 years. I hear you on the modifications warping the aluminum right from the beginning and my mechanic agrees with that saying that the heat from the welding will warp it no matter what you do. We have refinished (again) the exhaust manifold to remove some material at the mounting/mating points so that more pressure from the nuts/washers will go on the intake than the exhaust manifold. We're trying this tonight to see if we've solved it. I've also ordered the RemFlex gasket which the say will seal anything. We'll see what happens, maybe we won't need the RemFlex.

As for Fiat engineering, I think its well proven that it isn't really all that good as that still holds true today. My 2¢, the intake manifold issue could have been avoided right from the beginning if there were bolts in the center of the head as well, the two inside edges are left to float with no way to ensure they are tight, bad design right from the beginning and such an easy fix, two more holes in the head and two more bolts - problem solved.

If we decide to go with the Holley EFI, it will mean a new manifold and an adapter plate to mount up to what fits all the Jeeps. In theory, it should work just fine, actually interesting to me that no one has decided to try it. Hooking up the old Fiat EFI from 40 years ago seems like such a backward idea to me. Looking online, a complete Fiat EFI would be A LOT of money. Now getting one from a junker might be a lot less, but then it needs to be refurbished to make sure it's in good running order. The Fiat FI unit, refurb at MWB is $800 not including the computer and any sensors you might need. The Holley is $995 and fully tunable. Seems like a no brainer to me. Someone on here needs to try it:)

If we're lucky, we solved it today and will know tonight/tomorrow. Then adding an electric fuel pump to help with 'normal' carb issues. Thanks again for the advice, always appreciated.
 
Willy, thanks for explaining the details...I now better understand what you have. Sorry if I might have missed any of those details earlier.

Sounds like you are on a good path. Hopefully your manifolds and head surfaces are now true, that's a huge factor. I agree the mounting arrangement of these manifolds isn't ideal. But with enough effort it should be able to be made workable.

About prices. The Holley EFI is actually less than I thought. Somehow I had the impression it was closer to $1700-2000. On the other hand I think you can get a good working, complete Fiat system for under $1000 from guys on this forum. So it may not be that big a difference either way.

I agree it would be very interesting to see how the Holley system works on these engines. Keep in mind there are several factors about that design that may make it less than ideal. The size of the injectors in it may not be correct for a small 1500cc engine (think of the size of a 4L Jeep engine). The arrangement of having the injectors at the manifold mouth (throttle-body injection) instead of at each intake port on the head (factory FI) isn't as efficient. The mapping included with the ECU might have assumptions that don't fit these engines. The included sensors might not be of the appropriate range for this application. What inputs does it use for crank position, and is that included? I don't think it controls spark, but neither does the stock Bosch system. And installing it onto the Fiat manifold and throttle linkage may be a challenge. Also think about the intake manifold design; with the Holley on a carb manifold you have unequal length runners that are not great flowing, compared to the FI manifold's plenum and equal runners. But many of those factors might not be that bad either; it is just a big unknown, perhaps you will be the one to find out. If you wind up going that direction I can suggest a guy that can make the adapter plate to fit the Fiat manifold.

I agree the old Bosch FI system seems like a step backward, but it isn't that bad either (especially in comparison to a carb). Keep in mind it was specifically designed for these engines (unlike the Holley system). Many of the principles and design parameters that went into it are still used by some vehicles today. It is a fully electronic controlled injection. If you get to understand how it all works and make sure everything is functioning correctly, then it is very reliable and efficient. But there is always room for improvements, and those can get more costly as you mentioned previously.

I'm curious to see how the graphite gaskets prove to work. I've heard mixed input about them in general. They seem to be great for certain applications but not good for others. In the case of the Fiat SOHC it is a mixed bag, especially with the shared manifold mounting arrangement. So I'm really not sure. I am planning a turbo SOHC engine and would like to find the ideal gasket for that.

Speaking of gaskets, there may be some reasons why the ones you've tried so far haven't worked so well. I've found that the positions of the ports going into the head and coming off the intake manifold do not tend to align well on these engines (I'm sure that can vary). And there are places around the intake openings that don't have a huge amount of flat surface to work with. Some gaskets have oversized holes to accommodate this, and some do not align that well. So it can be possible for there to be a very marginal sealing area in spots...especially if 'all of the stars do not align' perfectly. Add in the mounting arrangement we discussed, and potentially inferior gasket materials (depending on the source), and you have a recipe for leaks. By the way, the UnoTurbo gaskets are designed for a FI head, so it has really big openings to clear the "scallops" on a FI head. That could have been a potential issue, but really should not have been.

Great discussion.
 
Willy, thanks for explaining the details...I now better understand what you have. Sorry if I might have missed any of those details earlier.

Sounds like you are on a good path. Hopefully your manifolds and head surfaces are now true, that's a huge factor. I agree the mounting arrangement of these manifolds isn't ideal. But with enough effort it should be able to be made workable.

About prices. The Holley EFI is actually less than I thought. Somehow I had the impression it was closer to $1700-2000. On the other hand I think you can get a good working, complete Fiat system for under $1000 from guys on this forum. So it may not be that big a difference either way.

I agree it would be very interesting to see how the Holley system works on these engines. Keep in mind there are several factors about that design that may make it less than ideal. The size of the injectors in it may not be correct for a small 1500cc engine (think of the size of a 4L Jeep engine). The arrangement of having the injectors at the manifold mouth (throttle-body injection) instead of at each intake port on the head (factory FI) isn't as efficient. The mapping included with the ECU might have assumptions that don't fit these engines. The included sensors might not be of the appropriate range for this application. What inputs does it use for crank position, and is that included? I don't think it controls spark, but neither does the stock Bosch system. And installing it onto the Fiat manifold and throttle linkage may be a challenge. Also think about the intake manifold design; with the Holley on a carb manifold you have unequal length runners that are not great flowing, compared to the FI manifold's plenum and equal runners. But many of those factors might not be that bad either; it is just a big unknown, perhaps you will be the one to find out. If you wind up going that direction I can suggest a guy that can make the adapter plate to fit the Fiat manifold.

I agree the old Bosch FI system seems like a step backward, but it isn't that bad either (especially in comparison to a carb). Keep in mind it was specifically designed for these engines (unlike the Holley system). Many of the principles and design parameters that went into it are still used by some vehicles today. It is a fully electronic controlled injection. If you get to understand how it all works and make sure everything is functioning correctly, then it is very reliable and efficient. But there is always room for improvements, and those can get more costly as you mentioned previously.

I'm curious to see how the graphite gaskets prove to work. I've heard mixed input about them in general. They seem to be great for certain applications but not good for others. In the case of the Fiat SOHC it is a mixed bag, especially with the shared manifold mounting arrangement. So I'm really not sure. I am planning a turbo SOHC engine and would like to find the ideal gasket for that.

Speaking of gaskets, there may be some reasons why the ones you've tried so far haven't worked so well. I've found that the positions of the ports going into the head and coming off the intake manifold do not tend to align well on these engines (I'm sure that can vary). And there are places around the intake openings that don't have a huge amount of flat surface to work with. Some gaskets have oversized holes to accommodate this, and some do not align that well. So it can be possible for there to be a very marginal sealing area in spots...especially if 'all of the stars do not align' perfectly. Add in the mounting arrangement we discussed, and potentially inferior gasket materials (depending on the source), and you have a recipe for leaks. By the way, the UnoTurbo gaskets are designed for a FI head, so it has really big openings to clear the "scallops" on a FI head. That could have been a potential issue, but really should not have been.

Great discussion.


Thanks for your input, I generally read on here and don't contribute too much as I feel I know next to nothing compared to most. I understand all of this stuff in theory, but have never really done much of it myself and have to have someone do the work for me at a cost. It's been a great experience with the X in one sense. Too bad about losing the motor 2 weeks after buying a car with a rebuilt motor, but that's a whole other story. It's been quite the journey and I wish I had the cash to have several Xs and play with all the ideas. Would love to do a K20 swap, as would my mechanic. But that would take 20K I'm sure. Can't play at that level:) My mechanic is a GM guy and has worked on just about everything you can think of and put other motors where they shouldn't be, he's often made jokes about putting an LS in the X and taking it to the track. He also loves VWs and has just completed a complete restoration of an 81 VW pickup with a late 90s Jetta Turbo Diesel, it goes like stink. Its all lots of fun to play with and dream:) Now to win the lottery, so we can really play! Thanks again...
 
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