Conversion to EFI

It would be good for MWB or VAS to try and sort something like this out with Holley or something similiar. They have the cash and the expertise to sort it out and get to the bottom of it. I bought the Fireball XR3000 electronic ignition module from VAS and it has worked out perfectly. If they could sort it out, I'm sure they could sell a ton of them. All things being equal, EFI is way better than a carb. So many options they could put together that would be better than carbs. People buy the dual 40s for almost $2,000, so you would think a good EFI setup would sell quickly. That's my biggest beef with the carb, you really don't know if the car will start or not. I go to a cars and coffee close by and I'm shut down for about an hour on a warm day, always a gamble when I go to leave. It would be so nice to turn the key and drive away.
 
You will probably find the market wouldn't be big enough to support a financial case for this sort of mod IMHO

The later US cars are all mainly FI and the rest of the world which got a mix of FI and Carb again probably wouldn't justify a vendor spending money to develop one of these kits on the potential return, especially when there is still people that prefer the carb over the FI

Again IMHO go with the original Fiat Bosch L-Jet setup its very reliable when setup and give you the turn key start up and go you need and all the vendors carry the necessary parts to maintain it

Sometimes with all these kits, they are great when new but once they get a few years old support for them disappears
 
It would be good for MWB or VAS to try and sort something like this out with Holley or something similiar. They have the cash and the expertise to sort it out and get to the bottom of it. I bought the Fireball XR3000 electronic ignition module from VAS and it has worked out perfectly. If they could sort it out, I'm sure they could sell a ton of them. All things being equal, EFI is way better than a carb. So many options they could put together that would be better than carbs. People buy the dual 40s for almost $2,000, so you would think a good EFI setup would sell quickly. That's my biggest beef with the carb, you really don't know if the car will start or not. I go to a cars and coffee close by and I'm shut down for about an hour on a warm day, always a gamble when I go to leave. It would be so nice to turn the key and drive away.

Modern gasoline is great for modern cars but IMHO it sucks for carbureted cars. Crappy shelf life, horrible ethanol, and lame octane.

Here is a list from pure-gas.org of gas stations in London that sell non-ethanol gasoline. Run you tank almost dry, put in about half a tank, and see if it makes a difference.

London CANADIAN TIRE 91 Canadian Tire 519-680-3843 3070 Wonderland Rd 2017-12-15 details
London ESSO 91 Hamilton & Highbury 519-453-1450 940 Hamilton Rd 2018-06-14 details
London UNBRANDED 91 Kraft Auto Care 519-453-2020 1880 Huron St 2019-02-19 details
London MOBIL 91 Mobil 519-668-0719 3040 Wonderland Rd S 2019-05-26 details
London MOBIL 91 Real Canadian 1205 Oxford St 2018-07-08 details
London MOBIL 91 Superstore 519-434-4662 825 Oxford St 2018-06-11 details
 
I doubt you could get the Holley system to work properly on an X engine, the smallest engine it is set up for is a 4.6l V8. I doubt the duty cycle of the injectors could be reduced to the level a sub 1.5l engine would need to idle and properly run at anything much less than full throttle.

Using intake components from the OE fuel injection system in combination with a Microsquirt you should be able to create a system for just over a thousand dollars in new parts and get rid of a lot of the bandaids of an injection system whose roots are in the early 1970s.

On an OE injection system if it is working well its a joy, if not its a never ending chase through a wide variety to vacuum leaks and old components. Admittedly on both my injected cars they both just start (even after sitting for over a decade) and run well. Getting them to that point where everything is buttoned up is the issue.
 

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I get what you are saying Willy. But I have to agree with the guys; there really aren't that many X1/9's or other Fiats with the same engine still around, and even less that want to modify or improve them. So the market is very small. Unfortunately we also tend to be a bunch of tightwads (speaking for myself anyway) that do not like to spend much money for things if there are more affordable options. In this case that either means keeping a carb, or swapping to the factory FI system (it really would be much less expensive). Interestingly a lot of owners of old Fiats prefer carb(s) to FI, as you see in some of the earlier replies. Personally I've moved on from carbs now, but I admit I enjoyed them for a long time. Hopefully you will resolve the vacuum leak and your carb setup can be improved to avoid vapor lock. There are several things you can do easily and cheaply to help with vapor lock and we can walk you through it once you get it running again (resolve that leak first). Although you have to get mechanical help with many things, there are also many other things that you can do yourself with a little guidance. And we love to help others.
 
Hi Willy,

You can check out my old thread on my never completed 78 carb to FI conversion. The thread lays out a bunch of issues I encountered, and yes, it is pretty embarrassing that the car is still sitting there 80% complete after nearly 9 years. :( If you plow thru all the posts you will even find a post from yourself asking what is involved. :)

At this point, I am tempted to haul it to MWB and have them finish it. It is such a good X and I have done it no favors by letting it sit. Fortunately I have always been able to store it in a garage.

Man that is an old thread.

It is funny how one dreads doing certain jobs, I have been in a quandary about my 87 X over manifold studs. What if I snap one, will I be able to get it out etc etc. My 87 has languished apart for the last year and a half, first waiting on saving some money up to get a rebuilt transmission and now to pull the exhaust manifold fully and deal with the missing studs and replacing the moldy existing studs. It is funny how some things just stop one from moving ahead.

You definitely need to finish the fitup of that car and get it back on the road. If I get my 87 back together before you I will be casting some serious shade upon you...
 
B75E3201-AB76-4046-95DD-4A7480B874CA.jpeg
Currently in the process of converting my ‘79 to Tbi using two barrel Holley Sniper. Pulled out the 100lb injectors and installed 45lb injectors from a Harley. Had to design and 3D print a manifold adapter out of high temp nylon as the orientation of the throttle shaft is 90 degrees to the stock carb.
 
Modern gasoline is great for modern cars but IMHO it sucks for carbureted cars. Crappy shelf life, horrible ethanol, and lame octane.

Here is a list from pure-gas.org of gas stations in London that sell non-ethanol gasoline. Run you tank almost dry, put in about half a tank, and see if it makes a difference.

London CANADIAN TIRE 91 Canadian Tire 519-680-3843 3070 Wonderland Rd 2017-12-15 details
London ESSO 91 Hamilton & Highbury 519-453-1450 940 Hamilton Rd 2018-06-14 details
London UNBRANDED 91 Kraft Auto Care 519-453-2020 1880 Huron St 2019-02-19 details
London MOBIL 91 Mobil 519-668-0719 3040 Wonderland Rd S 2019-05-26 details
London MOBIL 91 Real Canadian 1205 Oxford St 2018-07-08 details
London MOBIL 91 Superstore 519-434-4662 825 Oxford St 2018-06-11 details


Thanks Dan, since I have a somewhat high compression engine, I've always used Premium with no ethanol. Not sure exactly what it is, but the block was shaved to make sure it was true, the pistons are raised, so it should be higher than stock.
 
View attachment 23616 Currently in the process of converting my ‘79 to Tbi using two barrel Holley Sniper. Pulled out the 100lb injectors and installed 45lb injectors from a Harley. Had to design and 3D print a manifold adapter out of high temp nylon as the orientation of the throttle shaft is 90 degrees to the stock carb.


THIS IS GREAT. So glad to see someone giving it a go. Please keep us aware of the progress, this is fascinating to me. 3D printing the adapter plate is a great idea.
 
View attachment 23616 Currently in the process of converting my ‘79 to Tbi using two barrel Holley Sniper. Pulled out the 100lb injectors and installed 45lb injectors from a Harley. Had to design and 3D print a manifold adapter out of high temp nylon as the orientation of the throttle shaft is 90 degrees to the stock carb.


Can you explain to us why you changed the injectors from 100 to 45lbs?? I don't know a lot about this stuff and love learning. Thanks.
 
You would have too low duty cycle on the injectors, which would make it difficult to make accurate fuel delivery. 45 lb injectors are probably still too high.
 
why you changed the injectors
To put it very simply. As it has been mentioned, the Holley system was designed for much larger engines. Therefore the injectors are way too big and the ECU cannot accurately feed them such a low volume of fuel.


3D print a manifold adapter out of high temp nylon
"Integrale", welcome to the forum. Glad to see someone trying this, it will be a great project. Please start a thread about it so we can follow your progress. And it sounds like a good use of 3D printing technology. I know they can use some really cool materials in them. I'm curious, will this be able to handle the extreme heat of the exhaust manifold under it and not warp, distort, crack, or leak - especially when under the vibration, stress, chemicals, etc, of a engine intake?
 
Why not leave the plate orientation as is and turn the actuation from the car 90* mechanically either with a mechanism or just a cable?
 
Good news, just drove home from the shop, about a 30 minute drive. Everything looks good, she idles perfectly. Problem solved for now. Still very interested in EFI and will likely do that next year. Following Integrale's story closely.
 
Why not leave the plate orientation as is and turn the actuation from the car 90* mechanically either with a mechanism or just a cable?
That's what I did with my old Weber DCNF conversion. I opened up the carb mounting base on the stock manifold, relocated the studs, and added a insulator/spacer, leaving the carb in the original orientation. Then added a simple bell crank to reroute the linkage to match its 90* difference.

There are some arguments to rotating the Weber for a different bowl orientation relative to the vehicle, but in my opinion it wasn't worth the effort to reconstruct and ruin the manifold. I really do not think it will make any difference for a normal street/road car. The vehicle is constantly moving around, bouncing, vibrating, with G-loads in all directions as you drive, so regardless of the carb orientation the fuel will slosh around in the bowl constantly. If you experience fuel starvation on these tiny engines (that consume such a miniscule amount of fuel) then you have other issues. And as far as 'flow' characteristics with the manifold, well you really need to start with a completely different design of manifold to make any significant difference there (again for regular street driving). However with the EFI conversion discussed in this thread that isn't even an issue.
 
Good news, just drove home from the shop, about a 30 minute drive. Everything looks good, she idles perfectly. Problem solved for now.
That is good news. Tell us what was done. I believe you said the exhaust manifold's mounting pads were cut down. What gaskets does it now have, the graphite ones? Any other changes made?

Next is to eliminate the vapor lock potential.
 
That is good news. Tell us what was done. I believe you said the exhaust manifold's mounting pads were cut down. What gaskets does it now have, the graphite ones? Any other changes made?

Next is to eliminate the vapor lock potential.


Jeff,

We tried the Uno Turbo gaskets from Croatia with the crush rings, it really made no difference. We did indeed refinish the intake manifold slightly to try and remove some/all of the warp and then refinished the exhaust manifold at the mounting/mating points with the intake, to ensure that the washers put as much or more pressure on the intake manifold compared to the exhaust manifold. Used the regular gaskets we ordered from MWB, I believe he also put on some gasket goop as well. That all seems to have done the trick. Another idea we had was to machine special washers that would be slightly lower on the exhaust side, allowing more pressure to be on the intake side. Never had to do that in the end. Hopefully, that's the end of it, but I'm still fascinated by the Holley Sniper idea and will follow that very closely. There are so many benefits of EFI over a carb. And with the ability to 3D print an adapter plate (genius) this will be very interesting. Thanks to all for the help. Now to sort out getting the car to MWB for my electrical work and new carpet.
 
We tried the Uno Turbo gaskets from Croatia with the crush rings
There are several different versions of manifold gaskets with 'crush rings'. Some have metal rings around the exhaust ports only. Some have metal rings around the intake ports only. Some have metal rings around both. Some have a soft ring (silicone?) around the intake ports only, And some have soft rings around the intakes and ?? rings (not sure what they are) around the exhausts. Why all the various combinations I have no idea. But just in case those aren't enough options for you, some are for carb engines (smaller round intake openings) and some are for FI engines (either large round/oval openings or openings with a scallop). I believe the 'real' (factory) UnoTurbo gaskets look like these:

go103_lrg.jpg


Although I do not think the ones shown are from the original maker, it has the metal rings around all of the ports, and enlarged oval intake openings for the FI head. The actual ones sold as Fiat UT items are rather expensive compared to all the others.

Another one that looks promising is for the later Punto GT Turbo. It has soft rings around the intakes, no rings around the exhausts, but is more of a multilayer steel design. Again, I don't think this is the 'real' item but it looks very similar:

go104_lrg.jpg


What's interesting about these particular ones is the intake openings appear to be like the smaller carb intakes. I don't know, did the Punto GT have its injectors located differently than the earlier models, with a different intake port shape? And will these gaskets fit correctly on a FI X1/9 SOHC head/manifolds?
 
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