Coolant Pipe Rework Surprise! Pipe Maker?

Hussein,

I did use the gun and pre mix nozzle. I work on the X in a plexiglass windowed garage (which can be like a solarium if it gets hot out) in the Oakland Hills, CA and our weather has been unseasonably nice (read - 1st year of our new drought, ugh). 65 degrees would be a good estimate as I was in a tee and shorts and it was mostly sunny Monday. The pieces of SS were all about 1"x1.5" and .03 thick.

Where the Fusor squeezed out the edges or came out the holes I was covering is where it is tacky, don't know about between the metal surfaces. I put the box tunnel in the window, in direct sun today so if no change by late tomorrow then something with the Fusor must be off.

I wrote ToolDeals to see what they thought before asking for a refund. At this rate I might end up buying a welder, lol. This is all very humorous since every step I've done so far on the pipes is exactly what I didn't want to do!
 
I'm actually a little confused rereading your description of how you are using it (not that it changes anything in terms of the hardening process)- aren't you bonding the tunnel to the floor pan with the fusor? Shouldn't be any need for additional material, as the Fusor is sandable/paintable once hardened, unless the holes in the floor are as large as the holes in the tunnel appear to be? Unclear where the strips of SS (stainless steel?) are going exactly. Do you have pics of what you have done?
 
Sorry for the confusion. Yes the plan is to bond it to the floor.

But first I had to drill out the welds that held the brackets that hold the pipes in place inside the box tunnel. Otherwise the new pipes wouldn't go in. So I was bonding small pieces of metal over those holes on the sides of the tunnel.

Next I was going to bond strips over the lips where the 68 spot weld holes are on the tunnel box. Then bond the box to the underside of the X last.

Good thing I started with a "test" use of the Fusor first because if it didn't harden under the car on the tunnel there would be one extremely pissed off restorer!
 
I'm not sure you'll need the bond strips on the tunnel box. I looked at your photos of both the tunnel and the floor - you have a ready-made locking mechanism: the drilled spot welds themselves. I figured your small strips were for your now-piggybacked heater lines, ie something to hold them in place.

Definitely you should test the Fusor stuff on some scrap metal not only to check bond but also to see how strong it is. Shame to have it bond but be weak after the fact.

Oh, and you don't even need to buy a welder. You can likely hire a welder to come out and bang that job out in like an hour once you have it all prepped.
 
How does this bonding adhesive hold up over cyclic loading?
Will this stuff crack-fail after being bent and stressed over many thousands of load cycles?

Problem with bonding, surfaces involved demand to be immaculately clean of any contamination, proper surface prep and all those difficult to control factors common in auto rework.

There are many industries that use high strength bonding daily with millions upon millions of bonds in reliable service. Some do fail, majority do not. Bonding of type has been done in controlled conditions, bonding agent specified by qualified individuals, tested by qualified individuals, then controlled in production.

What happens if any service of these parts are needed in the future?


Bernice
 
The Fusor bond is permanent. It requires cutting to remove, same as sheet metal. It is designed to allow for stresses/flex due to differences in material properties, hence the different product mixes per application. Metal needs to be bare of paint & some 'tooth' to the surface. Not hard to achieve.

You should plan on bonding the tunnel directly to the floor as is, no need to separately sandwich the lip, and even if you felt that was essential, you would want to do it all in one shot - add rivets or screws to hold it compressed whilst fusor sets, them remove/grind screws as needed. You do want to compress the bond.
 
The extra strips of SS were going to be bonded to the bottom side or should I say garage floor side of the tunnel holes. Otherwise when I run the bond bead down the strips it will just ooze thru the holes onto me underneath!
Cooling Pipes new.jpg

As Darwoodious said I will see if the tunnel locks itself back in place before any bonding. If it doesn't line up well with all the underside drill doodads then I will hit them with a grinder so the tunnel is flush to the body.
Tunnel Removed.jpg

Yes my plan was to use sheet metal screws to hold the tunnel in place while bonding.
 
OK - since the floor is unperforated, you can apply the fusor to the pipe housing, not the floor, and just go around the holes as you might if applying RTV to a valve cover/oil pan on something other than an X1/9. The fusor will spread out when compressed, and you can 'schmear' the excess during the curing time so it fills the drilled cavity in the cover, and levels the lower surface. As long as the fusor has a full and complete seam the holes don't matter at all, besides cosmetically.
 
Sheet metal screws can work loose over time due to their "self tapping" nature. The resulting gap invites rust and corrosion.

Use structural Cherry rivits. While rivets should be loaded in shear, it should be OK for this application and it will reinforce the joint in a old way. Holes will need to be drilled precise then deburred. ebay example:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/CHERRY-MAX...ash=item44169d8a80:g:uGUAAOSw5nxad3zx&vxp=mtr

-But the correct head style (binder or countersink), grip length and material must be chosen properly.
http://www.cherryaerospace.com/product/blindrivets

Commercial aluminium or steel "pop" rivets are poor for structural applications like this.

Possible to use Cleco fasteners to temp hold the assembly together as the joint is riveted.


BTW, the Lotus Elise frame is bonded aluminum with rivet strength adders. This results in a joint that exceeds the strength of the aluminum extrusion used in Elise frame construction.


Bernice



[QUOTE="RZSR X, post: 287825, member: 3035"

Yes my plan was to use sheet metal screws to hold the tunnel in place while bonding.

[/QUOTE]
 
If you use screws they will be bonded with the fusor as it sets, and are unlikely to go anywhere, IMO. In addition to rivets I also used self-tapping screws when assembling my fenders, quarters and inner panels with the Fusor bonding agent. Those I removed & filled the small holes with bondo since they were all in the exterior panelling. Were they hidden, I'd have left them alone.

In your case, I'd just go with aluminum rivets for the piping cover, and leave them be after it's set. The bonding agent will fix them securely beyond the normal rivet expansion. Little more work, as you will need to pre-drill the rivet holes prior to bonding.

Definitely easier to zip it in place with self tapping sheet metal screws, but then you will need to consider whether you are leaving them or removing & filling the holes or not...
 
Bonding the sheet metal screws in should work. If type A or type AB pointy sheet metal scows are used, consider grinding those blood sucking points off the before covering with bonding compound.


Bernice


If you use screws they will be bonded with the fusor as it sets, and are unlikely to go anywhere, IMO. In addition to rivets I also used self-tapping screws when assembling my fenders, quarters and inner panels with the Fusor bonding agent. Those I removed & filled the small holes with bondo since they were all in the exterior panelling. Were they hidden, I'd have left them alone.

In your case, I'd just go with aluminum rivets for the piping cover, and leave them be after it's set. The bonding agent will fix them securely beyond the normal rivet expansion. Little more work, as you will need to pre-drill the rivet holes prior to bonding.

Definitely easier to zip it in place with self tapping sheet metal screws, but then you will need to consider whether you are leaving them or removing & filling the holes or not...
 
With all the advice I feel I now have a handle on what to do. Thanks

I sent the questionable Fusor Slow back and ordered the Fusor Medium from a different company.

So the next update will be in a week.
 
With all the advice I feel I now have a handle on what to do. Thanks

I sent the questionable Fusor Slow back and ordered the Fusor Medium from a different company.

So the next update will be in a week.

I used AutoBodyToolMart. Some vendors keep the (old) stock too long.
 
There seem to be many different ways to approach the repair of leaky coolant tubes. I was completely taken by surprise a week ago when reworking my shift lolipop with the bolt mod and some antifreeze dripped onto the shop floor out of the tunnel. I was totally wrecked just thinking about it. What to do? The first thing I should have done was investigate in great detail. Instead here is what I did. Once the tunnel was out of the way I realized the antifreeze was coming from up above the tunnel from perhaps the heater core, heater valve, rotten rubber hose, loose clamp? No big deal since a 40 year old soft steel tube is bound to be in need of replacement anyway. Now the tunnel is out I will buy the stainless steel pipes I have read about in one or more of the other threads. Also I will replace the heater line with a stainless replacement. Once I have it all back in the box I will spot weld it back on with about half of the welds that I took off. About one every 6 inches should be plenty. Then some seam sealer and top it all off with fresh rubberized undercoat! Now to order that stainless steel line set!



474.jpg
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473.jpg
471.jpg
 
Sorry for the confusion. Yes the plan is to bond it to the floor.

But first I had to drill out the welds that held the brackets that hold the pipes in place inside the box tunnel. Otherwise the new pipes wouldn't go in. So I was bonding small pieces of metal over those holes on the sides of the tunnel.

Next I was going to bond strips over the lips where the 68 spot weld holes are on the tunnel box. Then bond the box to the underside of the X last.

Good thing I started with a "test" use of the Fusor first because if it didn't harden under the car on the tunnel there would be one extremely pissed off restorer!


Instead of spot welding the cooling pipes box tunnel back in place maybe you can use "Rivet nuts" with a bed of body sealer, if you need to remove the tunnel in the futur it will be very easy just unscrew the nuts and voilà.
 
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Yes the rivits would also work just fine although I can't think of a reason that the tunnel would ever need to be removed again. The SS pipes should out last the rest of the car!

I'm still electronically locked out of the garage until the 1st of next month when the tenants are evicted and we can have the electricity turned back on. So until then I'm in a holding patern on the X.

Yves keep us updated on your progress!
 
View attachment 9665
Just received my bmrs stainless pipe set. Now to get the tubes into the box and use panel bond to glue the box back to the underside of the X. No welding for me except for the two brackets that hold the front of the tubes to the underside of the frunk.

Nice! I’m assuming it’s just camera angle that makes the new pipes look longer than the original, allowing for the small amount they appear forward of the old at the rear dogleg, the front does look set forward further?

Edit: never mind it looks like you chopped the noses off the originals (I hope)
 
Camera angle likely. They seem spot on! Will rebuild the box today and then research the type of panel bonder I will use to glue the metal to metal when re attaching the tunnel to the floor pan. Don't see the need to be removing it again in my lifetime so the panel bonder should be fine. Any thoughts on brands? Thought I would visit the local paint and body shop supply house and pick up what ever brand they sell.
 
I used Lord Fusor medium speed for metal to metal but I was having troubles with it hardening fully on strips I was gluing to the tunnel box. It has now set for almost a month and in a week I'll be able to get back in the garage and see if it did in fact cure.

If not I'll be looking for a product not made by Fusor.
 
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