Creeping shifter vagueness

I'd be interested to hear from Steve H or Matt B on shifters since they both race(d) Xs. I don't know if Matt's race car uses an X gearbox but if he does, it would interesting to see what they do for their race car in regard to shifters.
 
Here's the actual 128 gearshift rod assembly:

128shiftrod.jpg


For vague shifting, check for:

Misaligned/cracked gearshift lollipop (4102856) or loose bolts (4019755 or 13825721)
Worn/sagging lower engine/trans mount (rubber bushing)
Worn/sagging front (timing belt area) engine mount (rubber bushing)
Bent/cracked engine crossmember
Worn/missing gearshift lever lower plastic bushings (4210562)
 
My 128 autocross car retains the lollipop joint in the shift linkage. I have no problem with precise shifting as long as everything stays tight. About once a season I have to tighten the stepped bolt (13825721) it's just something on my routine maintenance to check.
 
Thank you all for your feedback and ideas on improving the shift linkage! This is great info!
Jeff, I especially owe you a big thanks for the list and diagram that you provided! Given that I have a 128, the diagram made sense and really helped me figure out how the whole shifting mechanism is assembled. Reviewing your list, I also discovered that I am missing the plastic bushings (4210562) and the lower engine trans mount needs replacing as the rubber has cracked and chunked away :eek: Parts have been ordered. I will provide an update as to the before and after 'shifter vagueness' once new parts are installed and all is bolted up.
 
Embarrassing update :eek: ... Lowered my 128 that was on a hoist, forgetting that I left the shift rod (Part # 4217039 in Jeff's diagram above) dangling straight down. Note to self: make sure all is clear under car before lowering! Well, I now have an "L" shaped shift rod as I wasn't able to stop lowering the car until it was too late. Tried slowly bending back the damaged shift rod end (gearbox side) with heat. Although I was able to get it somewhat back in shape, the crease appears fragile as though it may snap over time. Arrghhh :rolleyes: Would anyone happen to have a stock 128 4-door shift rod by chance?
 
Probably the only silly thing I have not done to a 128.
Check with Midwest Bayless if no one gets back to you, they have a lot of 128 that is not in their on-line catalog.
 
Will do Carl!
Jeff, I could only which that a bent shift rod was the source of the problem...it sure would make things easier :p
 
Sorry, I was referring to the missing bushings as being the source of your issues, not the bent rod. ;)
If I understood correctly the pair of plastic bushings (4210562) at the bottom of the hand lever (shifter) are gone. That will leave a LOT of free space for things to flop around without any direct control when you move the shift knob.
 
Although I still need to source a replacement shift rod...using my old one, I checked to see the difference in "play" with and without the plastic bushings (4210562)...ensuring all other components are fine and tight. Boy what a difference those little plastic bushings make! You are correct Dr Jeff!!! ;)
Plenty of slop/no directional control without and a nice positive feel with the bushings installed.
 
Hmmm...to add to the recent challenges I created for myself (...severely bending my shift rod by lowering my car while the shift rod was dangling straight down), I went to move the shift lever in the car (without the shift rod yet attached under the car) and low and behold, I heard a clunk and ended up with the shift lever in hand and two half domes falling under the car. See attached photo. Nothing appears broken or damaged, except that the two half domes came apart. The only other area I need to examine is the shift lever mount itself where the shift lever and two half domes normally reside. Not sure if when I lowered the car on to the dangling shift rod, given that the rod got pushed upwards, didn't damage anything. Any thoughts on what may have happened? Did I break something that now needs replacing? Any guidance would be greatly appreciated!
IMG_2781.JPG
 
Hopefully one of the 128 guys can confirm, but I seem to recall this ball is made in two halves that snap together over the shifter lever. If that is so then they may just snap back together. Or you may be able to get new ones to install. I believe I saw it listed on FiatPlus (Chris' site). But as you say, look around the shifter area to see if any further damage was done. I think that ball is this part of the shifter (red circle) and lives inside the parts at the blue arrow:

128shiftrod.jpg
 
FiatShift.jpgIMG_2793.JPGIMG_2792.JPG fuats2.jpg Well I removed the shifter assembly from the 128 and found the following setup which is different than Jeff's diagram. Not sure if the diagram may be for an earlier 128. In any case, I found two things that are broken in the assembly...the first is the plastic gray mounting base that is missing a mounting bolt "ear" and the second is the white plastic seating ring which the two halve domes (that form the lower shift ball) sit. Although the white plastic ring appears solid, it's actually broken in two places. I believe the latter damage was caused when I lowered the car onto the dangling shift rod (as the two cracks look "fresh"). It appears the previous owner or mechanic tried to fix the missing mounting "ear" by using a large washer to press down on the mounting base. I also noticed that the other two mounting "ears" are cracked. I will contact Chris (FiatPlus) and Matt (Bayless) for their thoughts (please chime-in if you see this posting) and to see if they have any of these parts available...or a whole shifter assembly I can use. Carl, to your last question, and it's a good one, it appears that a 4-speed pre-'77 X shifter might actually be the same as the one in the latter 128s. Maybe Chris/Matt/128 owners can confirm. Work continues. More to come...
 
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Looking at the pictures I agree with your assessments. Although I think some of the damage is new as you say, add the fact the two lower bushings were missing and it's kind of amazing it shifted at all. The good news is these are all replaceable parts, so barring any damage to the rest of it you should be able to fit it with some new components.
 
Carl, I did some homework, based on photos and diagrams I was able to find on the internet, it does look like a '76 - '78 X shifter assembly will work in the 128. Not pre or post these years as those shifter assemblies are different on the X. Chris (FiatPlus) took a look at some photos I sent him and he believes that the shifter assembly I have is not the original but a later unit (possibly from an X) that was swapped. He has most of the parts except for the white upper support ring that I need (no one seems to have this particular part :(). If someone knows where I can find this item, please PM me. On a different note, regarding the two half domes that form the ball on the lower shift lever, does the spring sit at point A or does it need to sit at point B in the attached photo? The second photo shows it sitting at the B location. Both locations seem to work though. Can someone please confirm which is correct. Would hate to discover that the half domes aren't correctly located after assembling everything. Speaking of the half domes, I am able to get one of the domes to snap in and fit correctly on the shift lever shaft...but when I go to snap in (or place) the other half, I'm having a hard time to seat it properly with the spring and the shift lever shaft. The two half domes don't seem to sit flush with one another to form a nice ball...you can see the gap in the third photo. Am I doing something wrong?
IMG_2807.JPGIMG_2804.JPG IMG_2809.JPG
 
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Can't help on this. Of all the 128s and Xs I have messed with, I don't recall any that came apart, they were all somehow secured together as a unit. I would get a replacement shifter that has not been pulled apart.
 
I'm not certain which piece you are referring to needing ("the white upper support ring"), but here is one listing for some shifter parts:
https://www.eurosport-uk.net/shop/i...id=377&zenid=d7b07257c66bf6290766984197dc60b6
Although the description says they are for a later style shifter, so I'd guess your's is different?

As for the two half balls not fitting together. I imagine that one of both of them was damaged when everything got pushed up and forced apart. So you might need to replace them. I vaguely recall seeing them for sale on one of the vendors sites. If the replacement parts list is long, or any of it is difficult to find, then you may be better off with Carl's suggestion of finding a complete assembly.
 
Just want to follow-up and state that the mystery with my 128 shifter assembly has finally been resolved.
The issue was that the two resin half domes that form the ball do need to be flush (snap together) with one another...otherwise, the shifter assembly will simply not work correctly.
It also turns out that the spring sits on top of the resin ball as opposed to winding within the ball itself as I thought previously. I believe the 'grooves' in the ball are there
to serve possibly two purposes... one being to reduce surface contact area and friction between the ball and lever when pushing down to place in reverse gear.
The other purpose might be to house some lubricant (i.e. white lithium grease) to further help reduce friction. In any case, after studying the assembly for some time and
moving the spring around, AND getting help from Bayless Matt (thanks again Matt!) it finally all came together nicely. I've attached a few pics for reference. I also learned that my 128
does have a later style shifter assembly and not the stock one. On to the next project :)
IMG_2872.JPG IMG_2869.JPG IMG_2865.JPGIMG_2867.JPG IMG_2863.JPG
 
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