Damn cooling pipes

carl

carl

True Classic
Looks like I have to repipe the Fatrat.

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These are the ends at the radiator, other ends pretty much the same. I thought of being lazy and just shoving the rubber hoses on beyond the rusted out portion but saw this.

IMG_0834[1].JPG


Hard to see in the picture but the area of the box at the radiator end is dark and oily looking and I'm guess the pipes there are leaking and that's antifreeze residue. When I got the car the cooling system was empty. Soooo, looks like I'll be cutting open the box and installing my SS cooling pipes I salvaged from the rat. I really really hate working under the car with an angle grinder shooting sparks all over me. I assume I'll leave the box open with just the sides in place just like I did the rat. Of course, based on my own advice I give people, We can assume the heater pipes are shot too.
 
I'm with you here. Both of my X's need coolant and heater pipes.

On the Turbo X I'll replace the coolant pipes with copper plumbing parts. Found the needed pieces cheap when a local shop decided not to carry that size anymore and marked down the remaining supply. Unfortunately at that time I didn't have the Outlaw X yet, so only bought enough to do one car. However on the Outlaw I think I'll mount the rad in the rear, at the rear panel where the tail lights would go (if it had any). I have a new, larger VW rad I plan to use with a large electric (pusher) fan. That will eliminate the need for the under car coolant tubes altogether.

I'll likely do a similar technique as you when removing the lower tunnel on the turbo car, and cut open the bottom panel from the tunnel. Have a couple thoughts on recovering it...or not, well see. I agree with what you said on the other thread, sure would be nice to have a rotisserie. Thought hard about making one, but I would not use one enough to bother. [There were some good Xweb threads on making a rotisserie a long time ago if anyone is interested]

For the heater tubes I also have some ideas. For the turbo car I am going to experiment with taking the heater connections off the coolant tubes, up front near the heater box. Easy to do when using copper plumbing parts. I realize that isn't ideal for a hot water supply, but I really don't use a heater much here - especially on this type of 'play car' (rarely driven, and only in good weather). If it does not work I might completely eliminate the heater altogether...which is what I'll do on the Outlaw car.
 
Do I need to drag the red X1/9 back to you this weekend to cut metal off of? The super secret storage lot is allowed to be empty sometimes.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
However on the Outlaw I think I'll mount the rad in the rear, at the rear panel where the tail lights would go
Click to expand...

Why not mount the radiator IN the rear engine cover lid, then push up (or pull up if there are clearance issues). Think of the advantages:
* keep the weight between the wheels for lower polar inertia
* the radiator is now above the engine so you could do away with the expansion tank
* find or fab a turned up filler neck - that's at the back of the radiator
* use flexible radiator hose that attaches near the firewall
* keep the hinges but you'll want to put a handle on the edges as it will be much heavier and hotter

Sounds like an "outlaw" setup to me!
fiat-x1-9.gif
 
Classic digression of post....and I love it.
Todd, thanks for the offer but I'd rather spend money on a battery powered angle grinder (already have a battery powered drill and Sawzall) and come make a mess at your...I mean my....secret storage lot. And then go to Five Guys for lunch. I won't be cutting out floor sections till nicer weather, March perhaps.
 
darwoodious said:
Why not mount the radiator IN the rear engine cover lid, then push up (or pull up if there are clearance issues). Think of the advantages:
* keep the weight between the wheels for lower polar inertia
* the radiator is now above the engine so you could do away with the expansion tank
* find or fab a turned up filler neck - that's at the back of the radiator
* use flexible radiator hose that attaches near the firewall
* keep the hinges but you'll want to put a handle on the edges as it will be much heavier and hotter

Sounds like an "outlaw" setup to me!
View attachment 19474
Click to expand...
one issue is your weight between the wheels statement is only partially correct. it will keep it between the wheels for left to right, but it will really raise the center of gravity. it will also shift that weight from the front to the rear changing that balance. I know people who say the weight balance is better after putting a fuel cell in the front, cant imagine moving more weight to the rear.

Odie
 
carl said:
Classic digression of post....and I love it.
Click to expand...
Then I'll digress further.


autox19 said:
it will also shift that weight from the front to the rear changing that balance. I know people who say the weight balance is better after putting a fuel cell in the front, cant imagine moving more weight to the rear.
Click to expand...
Very true. And my idea of moving the rad to the rearmost part of the car (rear panel) is even worse in that respect. But I may do it anyway, for the sake of simplicity. Remember it is the Outlaw X ('rat' type car) I'm talking about, so real design engineering does not come into play. But you are right. For what it's worth, I'm also going to use a small fuel cell in the front trunk instead of the stock tank (like you described). So that might help counter the weight bias some. Plus the total reduction in weight by eliminating the coolant tubes and other related items might be an advantage to having the rad in the rear (a little)? But really it is mostly out of simplicity and using what components I have laying around.
 
Dr.Jeff said:
Then I'll digress further.



Very true. And my idea of moving the rad to the rearmost part of the car (rear panel) is even worse in that respect. But I may do it anyway, for the sake of simplicity. Remember it is the Outlaw X ('rat' type car) I'm talking about, so real design engineering does not come into play. But you are right. For what it's worth, I'm also going to use a small fuel cell in the front trunk instead of the stock tank (like you described). So that might help counter the weight bias some. Plus the total reduction in weight by eliminating the coolant tubes and other related items might be an advantage to having the rad in the rear (a little)? But really it is mostly out of simplicity and using what components I have laying around.
Click to expand...
yeah I forgot where this started! outlaw means do what ever it takes, laws me damned! I say go for it. the other option would be to plumb it on the back panel with a vent coming from the rear trunk. I know bob nelson has an intercooler there. Another I thought about years ago was to do 2 smaller radiators on the sides. Bigger side scoops supporting it. more work than setting it above, but would be a cool concept. I would also be curious on what effect having less coolant (as you pointed out no tubes) would have on the cooling, I would think the temp would be more stable.

odie
 
With the rad in the back you give the water pump a big break not having to push the coolant so far forward and back. It would be like a 128 and no one complains of overheating in a 128. You just have to make sure you have an equivalent air flow through the radiator.
 
The (rear) trunk lid on this car has a bunch of holes; 4 for one of those luggage racks, 1 large one for a car phone antenna (had a old school Motorola unit inside), and a couple smaller ones for something else I can't figure out (maybe a badge?). Apparently at some point someone tried to remove the luggage rack by ripping it off the lid, mangling those 4 holes. So I'm thinking I'll just cut out the flat panel in the lid and replace it with a screen grill. Between that and a similar grill across the rear (tail light) panel, it should get decent air flow with the electric fan. The rad I'm using is larger than a stock X rad, so the coolant capacity will likely be larger, even with the coolant tubes removed.

I saw a picture of a South Africa magazine cover, with a engine swapped X1/9's intercooler mounted in the rear trunk. It does not appear to have any grill on the rear panel, but the opening on top looks to match some sort of grill on the trunk lid. Or maybe they just left the rear lids off completely:
x19_media_SouthAfricaMagazine.jpg
 
Dr.Jeff said:
For what it's worth, I'm also going to use a small fuel cell in the front trunk instead of the stock tank (like you described)
Click to expand...

So how about you get a small/tall radiator for a 90's honda civic and put it where the fuel cell normally goes.

I see them on amazon for $50
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07GKM9HH...&pd_rd_r=75f5e9ed-316c-11e9-b9d0-e312d9a21541

or cheaper $36
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B07731PR8...&pd_rd_r=75f5e9ed-316c-11e9-b9d0-e312d9a21541

Figure you could put it in at a slant, pull air up from the bottom and exhaust out the top. Since it's a "rat" get out a hole saw and make swiss-cheese out of the backside for the tank area.

EDIT/UPDATE: I just thought of something cool - since the fuel cell is moved to the frunk, you repurpose the stock fuel filler to a fancy radiator cap!
 
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darwoodious said:
So how about you get a small/tall radiator for a 90's honda civic and put it where the fuel cell normally goes.
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I like how you think.
The spare tire well won't be used for anything really. So it could be opened up to join the stock fuel tank area. Then the rad I already have could fit in the larger cavity created across the width of the cockpit. More air space available to deal with the heat flow. I'll have to look into that more.

This sort of reminds me of a old VW Bug I once had decades ago. For whatever reason the prior owner had an aftermarket AC system installed (imagine the stock 40HP engine turning the compressor). There is little room in that engine bay, so the condenser was mounter UNDER the car - actually under the transaxle, making it the low point of the undercarriage by a few inches. Needless to say the system wasn't working.
 
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