Early model heater box "fan shroud" (non AC) question

darwoodious

Darin Nelson
I watched @markx19 (Mark Weinberger) latest short video on his "Green Machine" series number 20 where at about 1:00 in he shows reinstalling a fan shroud for the early year non-AC heater box. I've just recently done mine (thanks again to @Mark Olson for the upper box!) and I did not see this shroud. I had a 1976 in my younger past and even then when I repaired one I did not see this or at least don't remember seeing it.

Mark (Weinberger) mentioned that his Austrailian X1/9 is a 1978 model year. Anyone else see these on the early model heater boxes with a regular blade fan (vs. the later boxes which I think all used squirrel cage type fans)? I think this would fix one of the early model design issues where there is very little airflow.

I looked in my shop manuals but didn't see any reference. I did find the following image from the Greek X1/9 club showing the shroud but don't know the year.

x19_ac_NoAcHeaterCore_01.gif


It is clearly there. Any other early (better yet, 1976) X1/9 owners in North America have this shroud also?
 

kmead

Glutton for punishment
I believe all non AC cars used the same box. It is almost identical to the 850 and 124 boxes. They all used a similar if not the same fan and motor, all two speed.

I presume you are referencing part number 12. That looks to be a 1979 and up assembly in the image. I can’t speak to the pre 79 box as I never had that out of my first X.

In looking at the parts books at MWB, all three generations show this as as a part of the assembly. 74, 75 and 79.0FD0B370-EC78-4BDA-99CA-C8FAFCDD7DFB.jpegF4F3B8BD-3598-4D12-B1AE-9D01E7F66C69.jpeg485819FD-0925-48BB-BCF4-3C1D2CA0B221.jpeg
 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
Darin, I've seen it in previous posts where people have shown pics of their heater box repairs/restorations. Unfortunately I don't recall what years those were from. But I agree with you it would certainly improve the fan performance. Karl's references indicate all of them have it, so sounds like you are missing it?

My understanding is only the later boxes with AC equipped have the squirrel cage blower. The non-AC boxes are still the blade fan on the newer models. Hopefully someone can correct me if that's wrong. But my thought is you might find one from pretty much any year and make it work in your box.

On a related note, the squirrel cage blowers have some fundamental design flaws that make them very weak also. I made modifications to mine to hopefully improve things. I think all of the boxes - regardless of type - could stand some improved air flow. Something I found on my X's is the resistor unit that creates the slower speeds had significantly more resistance than they are rated at (like three times more). That means the speeds will be equally slower than designed. However "high" speed bypasses the resistors so this should not affect it. The addition of relays will help though, and save the speed switch on the dash.
 

roys

Low Mileage
My '78 Canadian market car has it. Modified to fit the 3-row 124 heater core.

IMG_1480[1].JPG


Roy
 

Bjorn Nilson

True Classic
Many years ago, I had a 1967 124, and later on a 1972 124 Special T, and now I have a 1984 X1/9. They all basically share the same heating system, and it broke in all of them. I see no improvements, no evolution at all in the heater system. FOR ALMOST 20 YEARS. -It is basically the same crappy design thru all the years. I love my X1/9 but the heater system is a joke. All my Fiats had a screaming fan motor due to lack of bearings. The wires, plastic levers etc. didn't work for more than a couple of years until they broke. I would like to meet the engineer responsible for this crappy design to express my feelings.
Luckily, I use my X during summertime only, and I hardly don't turn on the fan, or touch the plastic levers.
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I'll try and check this week - but thanks to your Greek manual page, it looks like I'm missing #3, the gasket, which would explain why the two ducts are an inch apart. lol
 

darwoodious

Darin Nelson
Resolved and now the heater box is a completed project. Thanks to all who responded here and to my WTB post, especially the member who offered their spare fan shroud in a PM. Also all of the other posts discussing sealing these things up, the upper airbox from Mark Olson.

Some pics...
IMG_5889.JPG


I used all the techniques described around here to fix the seized fresh air flap and sealed it up. Also sealed the upper box where it meets the dash/scuttle area
IMG_5891.JPG


IMG_5892.JPG


IMG_5898.jpg


Repositioned the 3 wires to its own hole (vs just between the splits) with a grommet.
IMG_5890.JPG


Laid out with the top upper airbox off. The heater core came out VERY well thanks to a PM conversation with Hussein and his vinegar cleaning trick. Holds pressure and cleaned up nicely.
IMG_5893.JPG


Lifting away the heater core and the shroud. That shroud definitely NEEDS to be there to operate correctly.
IMG_5896.JPG


Also notice a little closer look that the core and what happens when you don't have the shroud there - it not only directs the air but it provides the right gap between the fan's bolt and the core itself. This didn't do any damage except flatten some fins, but thought I'd call it out.
IMG_5897.JPG
 

kmead

Glutton for punishment
Resolved and now the heater box is a completed project. Thanks to all who responded here and to my WTB post, especially the member who offered their spare fan shroud in a PM. Also all of the other posts discussing sealing these things up, the upper airbox from Mark Olson.

Some pics...
View attachment 49689

I used all the techniques described around here to fix the seized fresh air flap and sealed it up. Also sealed the upper box where it meets the dash/scuttle area
View attachment 49691

View attachment 49693

View attachment 49698

Repositioned the 3 wires to its own hole (vs just between the splits) with a grommet.
View attachment 49692

Laid out with the top upper airbox off. The heater core came out VERY well thanks to a PM conversation with Hussein and his vinegar cleaning trick. Holds pressure and cleaned up nicely.
View attachment 49699

Lifting away the heater core and the shroud. That shroud definitely NEEDS to be there to operate correctly.
View attachment 49700

Also notice a little closer look that the core and what happens when you don't have the shroud there - it not only directs the air but it provides the right gap between the fan's bolt and the core itself. This didn't do any damage except flatten some fins, but thought I'd call it out.
View attachment 49701
Thanks for following up and great pics. It looks great and should give many years of good service.

Also thanks for the link to Mark Weinberger’s Youtube videos. Succinct but enough to understand what the salient points are.
 
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tvmaster

True Classic
Does the part I circled butt right up against the dash vent, or is there space, like an inch between them?
Looks good btw

D2DAAFB4-1A95-4140-9A42-17828F4A35E4.jpeg
 

darwoodious

Darin Nelson
Does the part I circled butt right up against the dash vent, or is there space, like an inch between them?
Looks good btw

View attachment 49727
The defrost outlet (part of the dashboard) slides into that. That's why there's that rubber thingy.

(side note: I did spend a long evening with a heat gun reshaping that heat vent gasket to be in a more natural position to "gasket" against the defrost outlet)

I'll add a couple more photos if it helps @tvmaster:


Here's the unit with the defrost thingy inserted.
IMG_5908.JPG


what the defrost thingy looks like in the dash. I have my crappy dashboard with the usual huge hole in the middle (where a radio goes) so you can see it...
IMG_5909.JPG


side shot. it sticks thru the dash some 1.5"
IMG_5910.JPG


height of the defrost riser vs. the mounting base
IMG_5911.JPG


height of mounting base vs the depth of the defrost "thingy".
IMG_5912.JPG


so... the bottom of the dash defrost defelctor thingy should fit into the hole for the defrost riser.

On to the pedal box (which I almost finished today)...
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I’m thinking somebody cut off the bottom of my defroster-dash vent, because the bottom of it looks hacked, and the two units don’t connect, as seen here.

On the other hand, the defrost riser slides up and down at least an inch in its base. I can put my hand on it and raise it up to meet the defrost vent, but they never connect, in a pseudo-sexual way 😱

I actually have some plastic from gardening flats that I may be able to rig a collar to connect the units. I always wondered why the box makes so much noise relative to the amount of air which hits the windshield.

Thanks for the excellent photos 👍💯

F9B99EB2-D40F-419A-AACE-E809ABDE06AE.jpeg
 
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kmead

Glutton for punishment
I’m thinking somebody cut off the bottom of my defroster-dash vent, because the bottom of it looks hacked, and the two units don’t connect, as seen here.

On the other hand, the defrost riser slides up and down at least an inch in its base. I can put my hand on it and raise it up to meet the defrost vent, but they never connect, in a pseudo-sexual way 😱

I actually have some plastic from gardening flats that I may be able to rig a collar to connect the units. I always wondered why the box makes so much noise relative to the amount of air which hits the windshield.

Thanks for the excellent photos 👍💯

View attachment 49739
I would bet (though I don’t know this) the defroster vent has to go in with the dashboard as there isn’t enough room to install the full depth part after the dash is in and with a windshield on the car.
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I would bet (though I don’t know this) the defroster vent has to go in with the dashboard as there isn’t enough room to install the full depth part after the dash is in and with a windshield on the car.
My vent just pops in and out. So if I made a tapered collar, it would just slide into the base gasket I’m hoping.
 

Dr.Jeff

True Classic
(side note: I did spend a long evening with a heat gun reshaping that heat vent gasket to be in a more natural position to "gasket" against the defrost outlet)
So that worked...good to know. They are always very distorted and compressed in places. Yours look like brand new - I thought they were - good job. ;) I rebuilt the heater/AC box but it is still sitting waiting for everything else to go back in. Maybe I'll get motivated to try some heat on those rubbers first.
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I watched @markx19 (Mark Weinberger) latest short video on his "Green Machine" series number 20 where at about 1:00 in he shows reinstalling a fan shroud for the early year non-AC heater box. I've just recently done mine (thanks again to @Mark Olson for the upper box!) and I did not see this shroud. I had a 1976 in my younger past and even then when I repaired one I did not see this or at least don't remember seeing it.

Mark (Weinberger) mentioned that his Austrailian X1/9 is a 1978 model year. Anyone else see these on the early model heater boxes with a regular blade fan (vs. the later boxes which I think all used squirrel cage type fans)? I think this would fix one of the early model design issues where there is very little airflow.

I looked in my shop manuals but didn't see any reference. I did find the following image from the Greek X1/9 club showing the shroud but don't know the year.

View attachment 49170

It is clearly there. Any other early (better yet, 1976) X1/9 owners in North America have this shroud also?
It’s clear someone has hacked the bottom of my duct, but it’s unclear how much length has been cut. Hazard to guess? 1/2“? thanks.

F20ACDF7-A8B7-4296-A1E8-A75B870AC0EE.jpeg

E103756D-3BA2-4215-9EA0-0DE04BDADB13.jpeg
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I’d say it doesn’t matter how much was removed as long as you can install it and make the connection to the box with your new transition.
Thats the thing, it doesn’t reach the lower assembly - about 1 1/2 inch separation. So the back of my radio is toasty.
 

kmead

Glutton for punishment
Thats the thing, it doesn’t reach the lower assembly - about 1 1/2 inch separation. So the back of my radio is toasty.
I would make a transition which I would put in place and then drop the defroster vent in place into that.

If the defroster vent was any longer would it go back in?
 

tvmaster

True Classic
I would make a transition which I would put in place and then drop the defroster vent in place into that.

If the defroster vent was any longer would it go back in?
It must have at some point, right? The current version has some play. I’m going to make a transition piece from some gardening flats I got from Lowe’s garbage. Perfect gauge plastic, and black.
 
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