EI Distributors - too good to be true?

spiggs said:
Looks like I am not the first person to wake up this thread :) Just purchased one these distributors from Vick's. Has anyone confirmed that it does not need a ballast resistor? Also from the advance curves posted earlier I am guessing that I should hook it up to a vacuum port on the carb or recurve it for proper operation correct?
Click to expand...
The ballast resister is for the coil in ignition systems not the distributor.
 
Sorry I worded that poorly. Since I am switching from a points type distributor to a EI distributor I also changed the coil to match. I was not sure if this setup also used a ballast resistor before the coil. Ended up making a test setup on the bench and wired in the resistor to test. Spark seemed weak so I ran the switched positive directly to the coil and tested. All was good with a strong spark so that is how I installed it. Engine runs. Will have to test the advance curve next but first need to address a frozen clutch 🙁 The fun of bringing a car back to life.
 
The total resistance of a coil primary should be in the 2.5 to 3.5 ohm range. If the coil primary is significantly less than that (~2 ohms) then it was meant to use a ballast resistor. The 1300s used a coil with a built in ballast resistor. The 1500s used an external ballast resistor. If a coil that is meant to use a ballast resistor is run without one, it will likely overheat and fail. It can also cause an electronic ignition to fail as well because it is trying to switch too much current. I would recommend that the coil primary resistance be measured before making any assumptions about whether or not a ballast resistor is needed.
 
spiggs said:
Sorry I worded that poorly. Since I am switching from a points type distributor to a EI distributor I also changed the coil to match. I was not sure if this setup also used a ballast resistor before the coil. Ended up making a test setup on the bench and wired in the resistor to test. Spark seemed weak so I ran the switched positive directly to the coil and tested. All was good with a strong spark so that is how I installed it. Engine runs. Will have to test the advance curve next but first need to address a frozen clutch 🙁 The fun of bringing a car back to life.
Click to expand...
In regards to the stuck clutch, have you verified the clutch arm is moving through the full range (a bit over an inch) to disengage the pressure plate? Are you sure it is stuck and not a mechanical failure? Failures can be: broken bolt at the throw out bearing assembly inside the bell housing (rare), a spring arm or other part of the pressure plate breaking or a piece of the friction material coming off the plate getting jammed inside between the pressure plate or the flywheel. All of theses are pretty rare but they do happen.

A method for unsticking the clutch plate from the flywheel is to point the car down the driveway (assuming you have some distance) jack up the rear of the car and with the car in 1st, hold the clutch pedal down, rev the car to 3k and have an assistant abruptly drop the back of the car onto the pavement (with the clutch pedal down).

It might take two tries, in my experience it usually works on the first try. Then drive the car a bit, slipping the clutch a little to clean the two steel surfaces.
 
kmead said:
In regards to the stuck clutch, have you verified the clutch arm is moving through the full range (a bit over an inch) to disengage the pressure plate? Are you sure it is stuck and not a mechanical failure? Failures can be: broken bolt at the throw out bearing assembly inside the bell housing (rare), a spring arm or other part of the pressure plate breaking or a piece of the friction material coming off the plate getting jammed inside between the pressure plate or the flywheel. All of theses are pretty rare but they do happen.

A method for unsticking the clutch plate from the flywheel is to point the car down the driveway (assuming you have some distance) jack up the rear of the car and with the car in 1st, hold the clutch pedal down, rev the car to 3k and have an assistant abruptly drop the back of the car onto the pavement (with the clutch pedal down).

It might take two tries, in my experience it usually works on the first try. Then drive the car a bit, slipping the clutch a little to clean the two steel surfaces.
Click to expand...
I've had luck starting the car in first, driving the car & while keeping the gas & clutch pedal down, keep hitting the brakes quickly & briefly. It has worked all but 1 time. Sometimes you can free it by going hard on & off the gas & "jerking" the car like someone learning to drive a standard.
 
The clutch pedal is completely locked, I cannot push it down at all so I am thinking the clutch master or slave is frozen. I changed the master about 10 years ago before the car sat, I don't think I did the slave. Hoping it is the slave. After that we will see if the plate is stuck...

More about the coil. It is a FAST PS60 coil as recommended by Vicks for use with the distributor. Specs list it at 0.4 ohm primary coil resistance. I asked Vicks about it and they said it is internally resisted so no need to use a ballast resistor.
 
dllubin said:
The total resistance of a coil primary should be in the 2.5 to 3.5 ohm range. If the coil primary is significantly less than that (~2 ohms) then it was meant to use a ballast resistor. The 1300s used a coil with a built in ballast resistor. The 1500s used an external ballast resistor. If a coil that is meant to use a ballast resistor is run without one, it will likely overheat and fail. It can also cause an electronic ignition to fail as well because it is trying to switch too much current. I would recommend that the coil primary resistance be measured before making any assumptions about whether or not a ballast resistor is needed.
Click to expand...
My 1980 X 1500 FI died while running. Starter cranks but no spark. Ballast resistor connected to coil reads 0,3 ohm. Battery is at 12.6 volts. Voltage at coil with ignition ON reads 6.28 volts. I believe it should read 12 volts,. correct? Could the resistor be the issue since the manual says resistance should be between 0.85 to 0.95 ohms?
 
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
My 1980 X 1500 FI died while running. Starter cranks but no spark. Ballast resistor connected to coil reads 0,3 ohm. Battery is at 12.6 volts. Voltage at coil with ignition ON reads 6.28 volts. I believe it should read 12 volts,. correct? Could the resistor be the issue since the manual says resistance should be between 0.85 to 0.95 ohms?
Click to expand...
I think the 6V vs 12V might be a bigger issue than the ballast resistor being a bit low. If the ballast resistor is that low, I think it would affect long term reliability much more than it would cause it not to run. Also, measuring low resistances can be tricky unless you've got a good meter.
 
Last edited:
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
My 1980 X 1500 FI died while running. Starter cranks but no spark. Ballast resistor connected to coil reads 0,3 ohm. Battery is at 12.6 volts. Voltage at coil with ignition ON reads 6.28 volts. I believe it should read 12 volts,. correct? Could the resistor be the issue since the manual says resistance should be between 0.85 to 0.95 ohms?
Click to expand...
How did you measure the resistance of the ballast resistor? Measuring sub-1 Ohm resistance is tricky, so take the 0.3 Ohm measurement with a grain of salt. Because of the ballast resistor in series with the coil primary winding, you will read less than battery voltage at the coil. Ignition on, motor not running, ~6V is not unreasonable.

Has anything in the ignition system been replaced lately? A fee people have reported problems with new distributor caps. Any chance the Ignition Control Unit in the right pod has gotten wet, e.g. due to a clogged drain?
 
If the coil is not drawing any current ("points" opened) then 6V would be a bit low. If it was drawing current and the ballast resistor was at spec (.85 - .95 ohm), then you could see close to a 6V drop across the ballast since the max current from the ECM is 6A. It would be best to check the voltage at the positive side of the ballast resistor instead of the coil since they happened to wire it that way.
 
Last edited:
ng_randolph said:
How did you measure the resistance of the ballast resistor? Measuring sub-1 Ohm resistance is tricky, so take the 0.3 Ohm measurement with a grain of salt. Because of the ballast resistor in series with the coil primary winding, you will read less than battery voltage at the coil. Ignition on, motor not running, ~6V is not unreasonable.

Has anything in the ignition system been replaced lately? A fee people have reported problems with new distributor caps. Any chance the Ignition Control Unit in the right pod has gotten wet, e.g. due to a clogged drain?
Click to expand...
Thanks for your reply. Ignition system has not been replaced. I did wire in a push button for the starter a few days ago. The car was working normally till today's shut down.
 
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
Thanks for your reply. Ignition system has not been replaced. I did wire in a push button for the starter a few days ago. The car was working normally till today's shut down.
Click to expand...
When you say "Starter cranks but no spark", do you mean that literally (as in you pulled a spark plug wire and checked for spark)? If not, perhaps the problem is the infamous "piggy-back wire", the wire from the ECU to coil negative. If this has come undone from the coil the fuel injectors will not fire. See this post by @JimD.
 
ng_randolph said:
When you say "Starter cranks but no spark", do you mean that literally (as in you pulled a spark plug wire and checked for spark)? If not, perhaps the problem is the infamous "piggy-back wire", the wire from the ECU to coil negative. If this has come undone from the coil the fuel injectors will not fire. See this post by @JimD.
Click to expand...
Back to the drawing board... Question: with ignition ON, should there be power to the Fuel Pump (Injection)? In my case, there is no power. The Manual mentions an in-line fuse from the Ignition Switch. Where is this fuse located located?
 
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
Back to the drawing board... Question: with ignition ON, should there be power to the Fuel Pump (Injection)? In my case, there is no power. The Manual mentions an in-line fuse from the Ignition Switch. Where is this fuse located located?
Click to expand...
With the key in "run", but engine not running there should be no power to the fuel pump. If you poke a finger into the AFM to push open the vane while the key is in "run" the fuel pump should turn on.
 
ng_randolph said:
With the key in "run", but engine not running there should be no power to the fuel pump. If you poke a finger into the AFM to push open the vane while the key is in "run" the fuel pump should turn on.
Click to expand...
Did that and the fuel pump is running. Removed the outlet hose from the fuel filter and fuel is gushing out when the pump runs. Re-checked ignition and there is spark at the plug wires. Still, the starter cranks and the engine just turns without any sign of starting. Where do I go from here?
 
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
Back to the drawing board... Question: with ignition ON, should there be power to the Fuel Pump (Injection)? In my case, there is no power. The Manual mentions an in-line fuse from the Ignition Switch. Where is this fuse located located?
Click to expand...
The fuse is in an inline fuse holder on 80-84 cars. It is in the newer fuse box for IAI Bertone cars..
 
Alain - The Red Scorpion said:
Also checked the "infamous" piggy-back wire at the coil.
Click to expand...
Sorry, did you verify you actually have spark?

Do you have a noid light to verify the injectors are in fact pulsing?

Have you checked your ground wire from the transmission to the body? (since it is cranking over this likely is fine).

Have you checked the ground wire from the injection system to the valve cover?
 
Pull a sparkplug and check if it is wet with gas, then check for spark at the plug.

Have you tried using starting fluid to see if you can get it to run for a moment? If it runs on starting fluid it is a fuel problem.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top