Electric Windows - one works, one doesn't

[Michael Oxman]

I'm taking a brake from the brakes to address my power windows. Right hand side works, left does not. I took a meter to the circuit and I'm getting power all the way to where the black and white wires connect to the motor (picture below). It's a 1986. I've read threads where sometimes the motor becomes dislodged but it is in firmly.

I guess the next step is to test the motor but I'm not sure how to do that. Any insight (or reference to older threads) would be appreciated.

 

[Jefco]

My passenger side window is unwilling to go down unless I rock the switch just so...

At the motor, you can apply 12v to the two terminals and it should move; reverse polarity (that's what the switch does) to move the other way.
If the motor's ok, you know it's wiring; switch would be suspect #1.
You can use the same process to run the window from the switch socket with appropriate jumper wires.

 

[NEG]

He’s getting power to the motor. With you’re meter try measuring the resistance between the terminals of the motor with the cable disconnected. Open circuit means the motor is dead, short circuit means the motor is dead, you are looking for an electrical resistance of some sort. Check the working motor for the resistance figure.....

 

[Jefco]

Ah, I misread slightly.

 

[Tom Ginefra]

Old trick to unstick window motors that sometimes get stuck...

(With the power on, of course) hold the window switch (in whichever direction you want it to move) and simultaneously slam the door closed.

It's amazing how often this used to work for me on older cars.

 

[Michael Oxman]

Old trick to unstick window motors that sometimes get stuck...

(With the power on, of course) hold the window switch (in whichever direction you want it to move) and simultaneously slam the door closed.

It's amazing how often this used to work for me on older cars.

"Hit it with a hammer and see what happens" was what they taught us in shop when there used to be shop class. Will definitely give it a try!

 

[Michael Oxman]

So the slam method didn't work. I took the motor off and began some continuity testing like I saw in some youtube vids. I get continuity from one spade to one brush, but not from the other spade to the other brush. Upon closer examination, we lose continuity where the wires go to this black plastic piece. I tried to pull the black piece out, and the wires seem connected to it like they wanted the circuit to break. On the other side, you can see where one wire stops and the other starts - no continuity. Should there be a bridge on the outside there that perhaps rotted away? It is a little crusty. I don't see how the circuit works if the wires are not connected Thanks for any insights.

 

[ng_randolph]

I believe the black blob in your photo is a circuit breaker. Perhaps it gave up the ghost? The connections at the back side of the circuit breaker look a bit grimy, I would try cleaning them, or perhaps even reflow the solder joints.

 

[Michael Oxman]

I believe the black blob in your photo is a circuit breaker. Perhaps it gave up the ghost? The connections at the back side of the circuit breaker look a bit grimy, I would try cleaning them, or perhaps even reflow the solder joints.

Looks like you're right about this being a circuit breaker. The solder joints are good and if I jump it I get continuity at both brushes, so I'll bet you're right and it just quit. Advanced Auto seems to have something - I'll check it out.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

Nice work dissecting the motor. You really have nothing to lose by trying an inexpensive generic circuit breaker. If it fixes the unit then a major success. Take a few more pics of the reassembly (or post more on the disassembly if you have any).

 

[Cratecruncher]

Michael, before you just throw anything in there check to see if you can find a part number on the original breaker and Google it. The important spec is the amperage rating with a DC voltage rating around 12v. The one you show is a 30A rating. VxI=P or 360 watts. That may be too much for the windings and toast the motor. You'll also need the part to fit within the motor casing to look tidy. I buy most of my components from Digikey but there are others. You should probably get two because if you don't the other one will stop working for the same reason next week. https://www.digikey.com/en/products/filter/circuit-breakers/143?s=N4IgjCBcoExgLPKoDGUBmBDANgZwKYA0IA9lANrgwAEAaiALrEAOALlCAKoB2AlqwHl0AWXyZcAVwBO+EAF85xGBSoA3ail5SUE-tQBGMzAGt8UxnKADigikey

 

[Michael Oxman]

I will put together some pics to show the disassembly/repair/reassembly assuming I can repair it. I pulled the circuit breaker and its not much help. Here's a picture but the makings didn't come out too well. It says "BRITISH MADE" and "1 PAT" and has a brand name that looks like "Otto" in script. There are Otto electrical products out there. Anyway, I just sent a note to Bosch asking for the spec and we'll see if they respond.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

It says "BRITISH MADE"

Well that explains it, an electronic component made in England. I'm shocked they last as long as they do.

 

[Cratecruncher]

"Otter" is a company that has been around for a very long time. My '64 E has the original Otter thermostat switch in the coolant header that controls the cooling fan. Those fan switches have a reputation for being quite rugged. Your part is a "motor protector". See if you can match what you have to what they offer or perhaps email the pic to them and ask the specs? Also, check the motor case itself for a part number. There may be a current rating for that on the internet too.
http://www.ottercontrols.co.uk/motorprotectors.html#gsc.tab=0

 

[Michael Oxman]

"Otter" is a company that has been around for a very long time. My '64 E has the original Otter thermostat switch in the coolant header that controls the cooling fan. Those fan switches have a reputation for being quite rugged. Your part is a "motor protector". See if you can match what you have to what they offer or perhaps email the pic to them and ask the specs? Also, check the motor case itself for a part number. There may be a current rating for that on the internet too.
http://www.ottercontrols.co.uk/motorprotectors.html#gsc.tab=0

Great information cratecruncher. I was searching Otto. I sent Otter an email, so between them and Bosch hopefully one will respond. This model of motor (Bosch 0130821070) seems to have been widely used but I couldn't find a spec on that either.

 

[NEG]

Well that explains it, an electronic component made in England. I'm shocked they last as long as they do.

But good enough for a Germany company to use them in their motor products! Britain is made up of NI, Wales, Scotland and England

 

[Michael Oxman]

I believe the black blob in your photo is a circuit breaker. Perhaps it gave up the ghost? The connections at the back side of the circuit breaker look a bit grimy, I would try cleaning them, or perhaps even reflow the solder joints.

Update. Good news - I got the motor working. After striking out with Bosch ("this is an obsolete motor and we don't keep specifications on obsolete products") and silence from Otter, I asked Matt at Midwest Bayless, who said in all his years he never heard of a circuit breaker failing. That made me think that it didn't make sense for me to have the only bad breaker, so I went with ng_randolph and cleaned up the spades on the connector - conductivity!! Even though the solder joint was very solid obviously some corrosion had creeped in. I resoldered the breaker, put it back together, and the motor spins freely.

The bad news is that the motor gets stuck and the window won't go down. After the third time trying this little piece fell out (pic below), so I have a mechanism problem now. I think Dan from Philly posted an R/R on the windows so I'll have to review that. Not sure where parts will come from. The bad bad news is that the window did move in the up direction, so much so that it now protrudes beyond the door jam and I can't close the door. I'll have to get to this way sooner than later.

 

[Dr.Jeff]

I believe you can manually lower the window (to clear the frame and allow you to close the door). I think there is a "socket" on the mechanism that a 'crank' fits into to manually turn the motor. Hopefully someone else can add better details about it.

 

[JimD]

I believe you can manually lower the window (to clear the frame and allow you to close the door). I think there is a "socket" on the mechanism that a 'crank' fits into to manually turn the motor. Hopefully someone else can add better details about it.

I am pretty sure the emergency crank feature was only on the intermediate version of the PW set up. The emergency crank version was still cable driven like the manual windows. The later cars were cable less. The PW versions that where crankable had an access hole with a plug in the door card for the emergency crank, the later cars deleted the access hole because it no longer served a purpose.



My 85 has the PW version with the emergency crankable windows, but the PO had swapped in later door cards. I assumed (always dangerous) I had the later version PWs and gave away the emergency crank that I found in the car. Imagine my surprise when I finally pulled the door card to work on the PW and found out I needed that crank. Giving away that crank was a $50 mistake. I got a replacement for the crank and I am in the process of dyeing a set of proper door cards with the access hole. You can see the plugged hole is pretty much where the manual winder y=used to be positioned.

My window sticks in the up passenger position occasionally and I have found that a few cranks with the emergency winder will free it. Seems to be an issue that it gets too far up and the motor can't pull the cable back onto the spool. The little plastic travel limiter isn't doing its job no matter how I position it. Maybe the cable is on wrong? Or a little short?

 

[Michael Oxman]

Update - The window was jammed in the Up position. I freed it up (luckily it was taped up as per Dan S!!) Motor and regulator move smoothly upn and down with the mechanism out of the car.

Last Question - there is nothing to stop the regulator, i.e., it goes up and off the rail. What stops it? Is it just this little white plastic piece stuck on the end from my previous pic (i'll attach it again here)? I can sort of see where you can jam it in to fit, but it is full of grease which I wouldn't expect to see if it was supposed to stop something. Thanks in advance for your help.