<TABLE cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=6 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD colSpan=2><TABLE width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-TOP: 4px" vAlign=top colSpan=2>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Electronic limited slip?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 23 2000 at 5:58 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->This is a question for you electronic types,like that admirable maniac with a tube type radio in his car.How hard would it be to design a "black box" that would trigger solenoids working the parking brake levers (one at a time) whenever one rear wheels speed exceeded the others by ,say %10? Would the solenoids be huge to get decent torque transfer? Something else I'm missing?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Author[/FONT]</TD><TD>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]Reply[/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<SCRIPT language=Javascript> <!-- var n54_em; n54_em = ""; n54_em = n54_em + "j";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "b";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "1";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "0";n54_em = n54_em + "@";n54_em = n54_em + "t";n54_em = n54_em + "h";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "-";n54_em = n54_em + "l";n54_em = n54_em + "a";n54_em = n54_em + "i";n54_em = n54_em + "r";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "d";n54_em = n54_em + "e";n54_em = n54_em + "m";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + "n";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "c";n54_em = n54_em + "o";n54_em = n54_em + ".";n54_em = n54_em + "u";n54_em = n54_em + "k"; document.write("Julian"); // --> </SCRIPT>Julian <NOSCRIPT></NOSCRIPT>[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Do you mean.....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 24 2000, 12:12 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->electronic stability control?
you can go out (to a well furnished and rather expensive) breakers and rip one out of a modern BMW, Merc or Audi. Or better still find yourself a Nissan Skyline and take the goodies from there!
As for complexity - I think the answer is VERY. First of all you need to have the basis of an ABS system with 4 channel input (you might as well do the front as well) since you need to know the rotational speed of each wheel. You need the hydraulic pump and valving to control each wheel independently. Finally you need the black box - the big manufacturers have invested millions in this (even Ferrari use it now) and you can be sure that they aren't simple. I seem to remember reading that the Japanese systems were using fuzzy logic to make the decisions which means having a dedicated on board processor to handle the data streams - this might be possible to rig, but you basically talking about something as specialised and complex as your engine management system<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]bob danielak[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->maniac responds...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 27 2000, 10:03 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hi scot,
sorry for not responding earlier.
did not realize you were calling me out...
the electronics involved would be fairly complex.
you'd probably need a dedicated processor to do this.
i've seen fairly simple "basic stamp" type
approches to things like "cruise control".
but this would be more like an ABS function.
it would seem to need quite a bit more horsepower.
you also have to make it SAFE.
a lot of control laws to invoke.
all that aside, however, i'm not sure that i'd
trust the emergency brake cables.
you'd probably want to go into the hydraulics.
and i'm not so sure how suited the existing differential is to this....
a fun thought experiment, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE></TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap width="17.9%">[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot[/FONT]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 28 2000, 5:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wasn't imagining as complex a system as traction control, more like the right and left handbrakes used on some sand buggies,but electronicaly controlled.The idea is,on sand at least is to aply braking force to the wheel that is spinning to shift torque to the side with more traction.Obviously any system would be "for educational purposes,use at your own risk" like the DIY FI page I've seen.I had asumed that at least one microprocesor would be needed, but thats about where my electronic knowledge ends.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
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[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 23 2000 at 5:58 PM[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]scot [/FONT]</TD></TR><TR><TD vAlign=bottom colSpan=3><HR></TD></TR><TR><TD colSpan=3>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->This is a question for you electronic types,like that admirable maniac with a tube type radio in his car.How hard would it be to design a "black box" that would trigger solenoids working the parking brake levers (one at a time) whenever one rear wheels speed exceeded the others by ,say %10? Would the solenoids be huge to get decent torque transfer? Something else I'm missing?<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->Do you mean.....<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 24 2000, 12:12 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->electronic stability control?
you can go out (to a well furnished and rather expensive) breakers and rip one out of a modern BMW, Merc or Audi. Or better still find yourself a Nissan Skyline and take the goodies from there!
As for complexity - I think the answer is VERY. First of all you need to have the basis of an ABS system with 4 channel input (you might as well do the front as well) since you need to know the rotational speed of each wheel. You need the hydraulic pump and valving to control each wheel independently. Finally you need the black box - the big manufacturers have invested millions in this (even Ferrari use it now) and you can be sure that they aren't simple. I seem to remember reading that the Japanese systems were using fuzzy logic to make the decisions which means having a dedicated on board processor to handle the data streams - this might be possible to rig, but you basically talking about something as specialised and complex as your engine management system<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->maniac responds...<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 27 2000, 10:03 AM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 15px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->hi scot,
sorry for not responding earlier.
did not realize you were calling me out...
the electronics involved would be fairly complex.
you'd probably need a dedicated processor to do this.
i've seen fairly simple "basic stamp" type
approches to things like "cruise control".
but this would be more like an ABS function.
it would seem to need quite a bit more horsepower.
you also have to make it SAFE.
a lot of control laws to invoke.
all that aside, however, i'm not sure that i'd
trust the emergency brake cables.
you'd probably want to go into the hydraulics.
and i'm not so sure how suited the existing differential is to this....
a fun thought experiment, though.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px" vAlign=top><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->thanks!<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT][FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial][/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]October 28 2000, 5:31 PM [/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=1 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD style="PADDING-LEFT: 30px">
[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]<!-- google_ad_section_start -->I wasn't imagining as complex a system as traction control, more like the right and left handbrakes used on some sand buggies,but electronicaly controlled.The idea is,on sand at least is to aply braking force to the wheel that is spinning to shift torque to the side with more traction.Obviously any system would be "for educational purposes,use at your own risk" like the DIY FI page I've seen.I had asumed that at least one microprocesor would be needed, but thats about where my electronic knowledge ends.<!-- google_ad_section_end -->
[/FONT]</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE><TABLE cellSpacing=0 cellPadding=4 width="100%" border=0><TBODY><TR><TD vAlign=top align=left>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial] [/FONT]</TD><TD vAlign=top noWrap align=right>[FONT=Trebuchet MS, Verdana, Tahoma, Arial]